Episode #20 - Telling The Truth About Ourselves: An Interview With Ross Stockdale

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Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

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determination, all converge into an amazing, heartfelt experience.

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This is Speaking From The Heart.

Joshua: 00:00:11

Welcome to episode number 20 of Speaking from the Heart.

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Today I am really fortunate to be able to talk to Ross Stockdale.

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Ross is one of the small business owners, just like myself, that I

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really enjoyed having this conversation that was real and to the point.

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He has served business owners in the Lancaster, Lebanon, Pennsylvania

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area for the last 10 years.

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He has lived in this area of South Central PA for the last 30 overall.

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He helps small businesses with their B2B service companies, which help to

Joshua: 00:00:43

increase their net profit without breaking the bank in 12 months or less, as what

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is called fractional CMO, which we get into right at the start of the episode.

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He creates and executes winning marketing strategies to increase profit

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and also decrease time and headaches.

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He has 10 years of progressive marketing leadership experience, has a proven track

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record of growing companies, net profit, and has increased SEO effectiveness,

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SEO being search engine optimization for those who are not familiar with the

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term, for over 200 service businesses.

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Ross was one of those people that I really got into digging what the future would

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be, and without giving too much away, I will say that for him, being the owner of

Joshua: 00:01:28

Thunder Stock Marketing, the company that he has started, he has definitely shown me

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that it's all about knowing who you are, knowing where you want to go, and having

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the great influencers be able to take you in the right direction, whether you are

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in a personal or professional endeavor.

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With that, let's go to the episode.

Joshua: 00:01:50

All right.

Joshua: 00:01:50

I'm here with Ross Stockdale.

Joshua: 00:01:52

Ross, thanks for speaking from the heart with us today.

Ross: 00:01:55

Joshua, thank you so much for having me on the show.

Ross: 00:01:58

It's been a pleasure getting to know you before the show started,

Ross: 00:02:01

and I can't wait to dive right in.

Joshua: 00:02:03

Yeah, I really enjoyed our conversation too, and just sharing

Joshua: 00:02:06

some of our common interests as well.

Joshua: 00:02:09

I really want to start off with a question about what you specifically do.

Joshua: 00:02:13

I already let the audience know a lot about your background and what

Joshua: 00:02:16

you do for a living, but can you tell us a little bit more about

Joshua: 00:02:20

what you specifically do, especially as it relates to fractional CMO?

Ross: 00:02:26

Yeah, absolutely would love to go into that.

Ross: 00:02:29

I hit a juncture in my career last August when my first child was born

Ross: 00:02:35

and I was a managing partner, a chief marketing officer and founder of a

Ross: 00:02:43

private equity firm that grew from zero to 25 million assets under management

Ross: 00:02:51

within three years, and I was in the delivery room saying, "This is not it."

Ross: 00:02:58

I love my job, but the stress and the time and everything that went involved

Ross: 00:03:05

with that current situation of private equity, was not in alignment with my goals

Ross: 00:03:09

of fatherhood and being a good husband, so I knew that I needed to make a change.

Ross: 00:03:13

I loved being a business advisor in the capacity of helping small businesses

Ross: 00:03:20

grow as I knew it from my chief marketing officer position, so I knew I loved

Ross: 00:03:26

doing that position, and I had worked with a business partner that was a

Ross: 00:03:30

Fractional Chief Financial Officer.

Ross: 00:03:33

In other words, he had a book of business where he was the financial

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advisor to business owners.

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He got compensated very well.

Ross: 00:03:42

He got to do rewarding work on his time; flexible schedule he got to work with who

Ross: 00:03:47

he wanted to on the terms he wanted to.

Ross: 00:03:50

I knew that I wanted to do that same model to marketing, and since last

Ross: 00:03:54

October, last September, that ballpark, I've been working on growing my own chief

Ross: 00:04:00

marketing officer fractional business.

Joshua: 00:04:04

When you were thinking about starting this business, what were some

Joshua: 00:04:07

of the things that you had to consider?

Joshua: 00:04:09

In other words, were there any fears?

Joshua: 00:04:11

Were there any aspirations that you had starting out that you wanted

Joshua: 00:04:14

to have maybe in the first six months or a year of opening up?

Joshua: 00:04:18

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Ross: 00:04:21

I would say the hardest part was jumping off the ledge of the security

Ross: 00:04:27

that I had and already having a very established and successful position

Ross: 00:04:32

with the company, and then jumping off the ledge and going out on my

Ross: 00:04:36

own and betting it all on myself.

Ross: 00:04:39

That would be the toughest step one.

Joshua: 00:04:42

Who did you have in your life that you could lean on, especially as

Joshua: 00:04:46

you were doing that, because that is a big, scary jump, and I know personally,

Joshua: 00:04:49

myself, starting earlier this year, my own business, that was the biggest

Joshua: 00:04:53

thing I ever did, and now I feel really happy that I took the plunge, but I

Joshua: 00:04:57

had some people along the way too.

Ross: 00:05:00

I was self-employed since quarter three of 2019, but it was

Ross: 00:05:05

self-employed with an asterisk because I had teamed up with business partners.

Ross: 00:05:10

This would be my first solopreneur, so it was at the first pretty lonely,

Ross: 00:05:15

but luckily I have a hardworking and loyal wife, and I got to spend a lot

Ross: 00:05:21

of time with my newborn child at the time, so that was all the motivation of

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the world I needed, and luckily where I'm at geographically, I got to see

Ross: 00:05:31

my parents quite a bit and they were my biggest fans and supporters, so I had a

Ross: 00:05:36

strong family network around and being in South Central Pennsylvania for darn

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near my whole life, I knew a bunch of people, so luckily I got to network with

Ross: 00:05:46

other solopreneurs and business owners.

Joshua: 00:05:50

You working with other small business owners, what have you seen

Joshua: 00:05:53

as some of the common challenges that they have, especially since you are

Joshua: 00:05:57

dealing with marketing specifically, what do you think are some of the things

Joshua: 00:06:02

that are still challenges, especially in this climate that we are, because

Joshua: 00:06:06

trying to get our name out there, get our voice out there, it can be often

Joshua: 00:06:09

difficult, but what have you typically seen and how have you helped them to

Joshua: 00:06:13

navigate through those challenges?

Ross: 00:06:15

I would describe two challenges that I've seen as a recurring trend.

Ross: 00:06:20

Number one in the area and the small business owners that I serve, on average,

Ross: 00:06:27

90% plus, are aging in demographic where they'll be retiring within the next

Ross: 00:06:32

five years; baby boomer businesses.

Ross: 00:06:35

There's a statistic I think it's interesting that in the next five to 10

Ross: 00:06:39

years, 9 trillion dollars of the economy will retire, so that means that the

Ross: 00:06:45

business has to go somewhere, whether that's closed down, whether that's being

Ross: 00:06:50

sold at succession planning, something.

Joshua: 00:06:52

Wow.

Ross: 00:06:52

So that applies definitely to South Central Pennsylvania business owners that

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they're at that cusp of retirement where they've either built something where

Ross: 00:07:02

they're very comfortable and change is scary, and word of mouth referrals is

Ross: 00:07:07

all they've had to do before to grow it, and now the internet came and COVID came

Ross: 00:07:11

and made business a lot more difficult.

Ross: 00:07:13

So resistance to change, due to the longstanding track record they've

Ross: 00:07:19

had is number one that I've found as being a recurring challenge,

Ross: 00:07:23

and probably number two is business owners getting comfortable.

Ross: 00:07:29

I would say that 75% of business owners are technicians or people that love doing

Ross: 00:07:35

the activity and aren't not necessarily in it to just make profit like entrepreneurs

Ross: 00:07:42

or mercenaries like freelancers that just can't work for somebody else, that would

Ross: 00:07:45

keep the next 25% of business owners.

Ross: 00:07:48

I would say those, those two demographics, so the technicians love more than anything

Ross: 00:07:56

to invent leather good products, but because they're so good at inventing

Ross: 00:08:01

leather, good products, and they've built a business to a certain stage,

Ross: 00:08:05

that means they think they're also the world's best copywriter, the world's best

Ross: 00:08:08

SEO, the world's best salesperson, and they could be a great salesperson, but

Ross: 00:08:12

because they have control, they treat the business like their child, like

Ross: 00:08:17

that is their baby, their pride and joy.

Ross: 00:08:19

They don't have a detached, impersonal perception on how to grow it objectively

Ross: 00:08:24

by looking at cold, hard numbers.

Ross: 00:08:26

Between the, and I don't want to, it's not a derogatory thing, but between

Ross: 00:08:32

the this is how we did it in my day mentality, and this is my baby, breaking

Ross: 00:08:39

those false beliefs has been proven to be the most challenging and also the

Ross: 00:08:45

most rewarding if it happens, because then you see new heights and new

Ross: 00:08:50

breakthroughs that they may not have believed before they could have achieved.

Joshua: 00:08:55

I shared with my guests in another episode that I was diagnosed as autistic

Joshua: 00:09:01

just a few months ago, and that shattered my whole worldview or perception of

Joshua: 00:09:07

how to think about certain things, and it's interesting to hear you say that

Joshua: 00:09:11

in the context of even business owners thinking, "This is what I've worked

Joshua: 00:09:15

for all my life, like you can't change this, like this is what I really enjoy.

Joshua: 00:09:20

I think that this still has value."

Joshua: 00:09:22

Well, yeah, it might to you, but not to everyone else, and you have to start to

Joshua: 00:09:27

reframe the conversation a little bit when it comes to that, and I know that

Joshua: 00:09:31

for a fact personally that that can be a challenge, and especially somebody

Joshua: 00:09:35

going through that myself right now.

Joshua: 00:09:37

When you're working with even those business owners, how do

Joshua: 00:09:40

you take that tactful approach?

Joshua: 00:09:42

In other words, how do you deal with people that are

Joshua: 00:09:45

really grown, attached to them?

Joshua: 00:09:47

Do you try to break it down for them, like you said, with the cold hard

Joshua: 00:09:50

numbers, or do you try another approach?

Ross: 00:09:54

I've probably had to learn this lesson the hard way, and I have experience

Ross: 00:10:01

with hurting business owners' feelings, not because I am a mean person, but

Ross: 00:10:08

because I am just a objective, factually oriented person, and I thought that

Ross: 00:10:12

they looked at the business the same way that I did, so I had to learn that

Ross: 00:10:16

lesson the hard way, okay, so my stance now is using the frame of bracing.

Ross: 00:10:23

If I have to give someone slightly uncomfortable news, I want them to be

Ross: 00:10:27

like, for example, I'll say, "Joshua.

Ross: 00:10:31

I need you to just take a deep breath and sit down.

Ross: 00:10:34

I don't know if you're ready to hear this."

Ross: 00:10:36

"Okay.

Ross: 00:10:36

I'm fine.

Ross: 00:10:37

What do I need to hear?"

Ross: 00:10:39

"Well, I'm going to be five minutes late for our podcast."

Joshua: 00:10:43

Oh, no.

Ross: 00:10:45

It is taking the frame of mind, keeping it lighthearted, taking their

Ross: 00:10:49

business very seriously, but also delivering the bad news in a way

Ross: 00:10:55

that could be more digestible, as opposed to just saying, "Hey, if you

Ross: 00:11:00

continue doing what you're doing, the business won't exist in nine months.",

Ross: 00:11:03

like, you can't just deliver that.

Ross: 00:11:04

Boom; crowd goes wild.

Ross: 00:11:07

It's just a bomb you can't drop.

Joshua: 00:11:09

I like to call that the shoot from the hip concept that most

Joshua: 00:11:12

people like to try to do it, but it doesn't work nine chances out of 10.

Ross: 00:11:17

And, to that same line of thinking with the framing, embracing, it's also

Ross: 00:11:22

really about who do I work with, so because I'm self-employed, I'm pretty

Ross: 00:11:27

choosy on who I work with, I've turned down, plenty of prospects and say it's

Ross: 00:11:32

just not a good fit, because I need the prospect to, before we sign anything,

Ross: 00:11:37

before we agree to work together, understand that this is how I communicate,

Ross: 00:11:42

this is how I look at things, before you pay me, I want to make sure that you're

Ross: 00:11:47

happy with paying me, and I'm going to say these types of things, and if these types

Ross: 00:11:53

of things are going to bother you, you can talk about talking about your business,

Ross: 00:11:56

then I'm not the world's best "yes man".

Ross: 00:11:59

In fact, I'd be the world's worst "yes, man."

Joshua: 00:12:01

I think that's important too.

Joshua: 00:12:03

I take a similar approach.

Joshua: 00:12:04

I try to meet with people first, get an understanding of what's going

Joshua: 00:12:08

on, and if I'm not the best fit for it, I'm going to tell them straight

Joshua: 00:12:12

up, "I don't have that experience.

Joshua: 00:12:14

I think though, that I have this other person that I work with and

Joshua: 00:12:17

I know he does really well, or she does really well, let me refer you

Joshua: 00:12:20

to them because I think they're going to take better care of you too."

Ross: 00:12:23

Mm-hmm.

Joshua: 00:12:24

And I think that's really important, especially in the line of

Joshua: 00:12:27

work that both you and I do, because that's a good way to easily damage

Joshua: 00:12:32

relationships, your reputation out there.

Joshua: 00:12:35

With that said, have you ever had a client that you work with and you don't have

Joshua: 00:12:40

the give particulars whatsoever, that might have been tough to deal with with

Joshua: 00:12:45

that sort of news that you're breaking and they just didn't take it so well,

Joshua: 00:12:49

and how did you navigate through that?

Joshua: 00:12:51

Were you able to win them back, or was it just something that afterwards,

Joshua: 00:12:55

you have to realize, you probably have to cut your losses a little bit?

Ross: 00:12:58

I guess if the question is a tough situation or a tough client to work with-

Joshua: 00:13:03

Yes.

Ross: 00:13:04

-Was I able to mend the relationship?

Ross: 00:13:06

Or not?

Joshua: 00:13:07

Yeah.

Joshua: 00:13:07

Yes, exactly.

Ross: 00:13:08

I would say the toughest client I ever had to deal with was my first

Ross: 00:13:12

client, and this would've been before the time I started my current fractional CMO

Ross: 00:13:20

business, but the first client, there were periods of time, without going into

Ross: 00:13:26

who it was and specifics, where we would agree to something, I would write down

Ross: 00:13:30

what we agreed to, show them the paper, "Hey, we agreed to this on this date."

Ross: 00:13:34

"Yes."

Ross: 00:13:36

3, 4, 5 business days later, would completely forget

Ross: 00:13:39

the conversation happened.

Ross: 00:13:41

I would just go about business as if we didn't disagree that

Ross: 00:13:43

this was the course of action.

Ross: 00:13:45

I would hold that person accountable and they would go ballistic.

Joshua: 00:13:48

Mm-hmm.

Ross: 00:13:49

And it's just like, "Hey, either you're very forgetful and there's

Ross: 00:13:53

like a medical issue happening, or you're gaslighting me and either way,

Ross: 00:13:57

I'm concerned and I'm worried about you in particular in this instance."

Ross: 00:14:02

There were times where it was just like; I have a grandmother that, well,

Ross: 00:14:08

she actually had passed last year, and she loved to be 91, so she's a very

Ross: 00:14:12

full life, great life, but for the last seven years, she had a severe stroke and

Ross: 00:14:17

was battling with Wernicke's Aphasia.

Ross: 00:14:20

There's another aphasia that, but basically what that means, is it

Ross: 00:14:23

impairs memory recall with speech, so she has these intense feelings and

Ross: 00:14:29

thoughts, but she can't articulate them, so like I've had to deal with that.

Ross: 00:14:35

That was my life for like seven years trying to deal with her, so seeing someone

Ross: 00:14:39

that doesn't quite grasp like what's exactly, they can't like communicate and

Ross: 00:14:44

grasp, as a client who owns a business with high overhead and payroll, like I

Ross: 00:14:53

treated them like that person, like an equal to me, like not as if there was

Ross: 00:14:56

anything wrong going on, and we butted heads really hard, and I just was like,"

Ross: 00:15:02

Either I walk away or you walk away."

Joshua: 00:15:03

Mm-hmm.

Ross: 00:15:04

Which one is it?

Joshua: 00:15:05

Yeah.

Ross: 00:15:05

Because there's nothing productive is happening anymore because we can't

Ross: 00:15:08

identify apples to apples, so that was the hardest and the first client, and it

Ross: 00:15:14

really set my boundaries and my limits on, here are the types of clients that

Ross: 00:15:19

I will work with and will not work with, and it really broke my heart

Ross: 00:15:22

because I cared about that client a lot.

Joshua: 00:15:23

Yeah.

Ross: 00:15:24

I hope that that client's doing well, but, the nature of my business is

Ross: 00:15:29

I consult with and advise with people's most valuable and endearing part of

Ross: 00:15:35

their life, oftentimes their business.

Joshua: 00:15:38

That's really something I want to get into now.

Joshua: 00:15:41

Thanks for sharing all those thoughts, Ross, because I think it's really

Joshua: 00:15:44

insightful to see and hear how you make those connections with people,

Joshua: 00:15:48

and you definitely, just from what I have gathered, you are a very genuine

Joshua: 00:15:53

person when it comes to creating those relationships with others.

Joshua: 00:15:56

Tell me how you decided though, to go specifically with small businesses,

Joshua: 00:16:02

because let's face it, you could have worked with medium sized

Joshua: 00:16:06

businesses, these large corporations, to do the same amount of work.

Joshua: 00:16:09

You'd probably be paid a heck of a lot more, maybe, who knows?

Joshua: 00:16:13

Maybe you might be more fulfilled?

Joshua: 00:16:14

There's all infinite amount of variables with that.

Joshua: 00:16:17

But why small businesses?

Joshua: 00:16:18

What made you passionate about that though?

Ross: 00:16:21

A quote I like from a German philosopher, Soren

Ross: 00:16:24

Kierkegaard says, "Do or do not.

Ross: 00:16:27

You'll regret it regardless."

Ross: 00:16:29

That's paraphrased.

Ross: 00:16:31

I'm used to small businesses.

Ross: 00:16:33

Growing up, I had a father who was an entrepreneur who had small businesses

Ross: 00:16:37

and did commercial real estate for small business owners, local to the area.

Ross: 00:16:41

That's what I grew up seeing.

Ross: 00:16:44

I worked in digital marketing for just about seven years before I went full-time

Ross: 00:16:50

self-employed into the private equity and fractional consulting space.

Ross: 00:16:56

I primarily worked with small businesses as, as well as used to.

Ross: 00:16:59

I got to see how much impact you could have on not only the small business,

Ross: 00:17:03

but the community and their families, so I like the impact and the mission.

Ross: 00:17:08

Medium business; I had to define medium businesses, business that are like 50

Ross: 00:17:12

million and up to like half a billion; maybe I don't know, maybe it's a

Ross: 00:17:17

different parameter, but I've worked with one customer before that was over half a

Ross: 00:17:21

million and we were a boutique marketing agency, I was a part of that at the

Ross: 00:17:28

time, and we could have doubled in size just to serve that one customer's needs.

Ross: 00:17:33

I felt like everything that I did, I was just a cog in a

Ross: 00:17:36

much, much, much larger machine.

Ross: 00:17:39

I never wanted work for big businesses.

Ross: 00:17:41

Scratch that; I did talk with several Fortune 50 companies, and I flew out,

Ross: 00:17:47

interviewed, but I made the final stage of interview, went to these big cities,

Ross: 00:17:52

and I was just like, "I'm getting severe anxiety being in this interview.

Ross: 00:17:57

I can't do this."

Ross: 00:17:58

As soon as saw the office, I was like, "I don't need the key card.

Ross: 00:18:02

I don't need the pod where you can take a nap.

Ross: 00:18:04

I don't need the mental health like cubicle, like

Ross: 00:18:07

this place is not my style."

Ross: 00:18:10

I had experience with medium and large businesses, and I always fell back

Ross: 00:18:15

to wanting to help that relationship with the business owner and their

Ross: 00:18:20

corner of their community, because big business is a whole different animal.

Joshua: 00:18:25

It is, and I have had my own experiences.

Joshua: 00:18:29

You don't know this about me and my audience does, but I've been working

Joshua: 00:18:32

with the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania in a variety of different ways for over

Joshua: 00:18:35

13 years as a full-time profession, so I have seen and have interacted with some

Joshua: 00:18:40

of those people that are also, I'm on the other side of that table, they're

Joshua: 00:18:45

coming in, they're giving their final presentation, we're making a decision

Joshua: 00:18:48

based on how that presentation goes.

Joshua: 00:18:51

It can be very nerve wracking to be on that side, and I have the utmost

Joshua: 00:18:55

respect now for those people looking back because of what I do as a result.

Joshua: 00:19:00

Which leads me into my question that I have for you, Ross, is, what are the

Joshua: 00:19:05

values that you stand on; in other words, what are the principles that help

Joshua: 00:19:09

dictate that drive that you have on a daily basis to help small businesses?

Joshua: 00:19:14

Are there two or three of them that you can think of that really help

Joshua: 00:19:18

you to carry you from day to day?

Ross: 00:19:22

I don't have core values, per se, hung up on my wall in my office,

Ross: 00:19:26

but I did have a conversation with my grandfather who I look up to quite a bit.

Ross: 00:19:32

When I thought, after my grandmother's, one of her original strokes I thought was

Ross: 00:19:35

going to take her, she was a goner, and I went to visit her and we talked about

Ross: 00:19:39

business for two hours, my grandmother was actually fine when I showed up, so

Ross: 00:19:43

my grandfather told me that his three rules of business were: tell the truth;

Ross: 00:19:50

don't take shit; and give him hell.

Joshua: 00:19:54

I love that.

Ross: 00:19:54

And, and he was a farmer from Iowa growing up.

Ross: 00:19:59

Long story short was in the US Navy and Air Force for 27 years, ended

Ross: 00:20:05

up getting his MBA, and had like 500 employees by the time he was 37.

Ross: 00:20:11

He lived the American dream and he is very blue collar, small town court

Ross: 00:20:16

like values, so I can remember those.

Ross: 00:20:21

You could say it different ways, like, honesty and integrity and do

Ross: 00:20:25

your best, and I don't know how else you say, "don't take shit", but-

Joshua: 00:20:30

Don't take it at all, yeah-

Ross: 00:20:32

I don't, don't, don't put up with anything that would be below acceptable.

Joshua: 00:20:37

Yeah.

Ross: 00:20:38

Those I would fall back on as being core values that I adhere to, and it

Ross: 00:20:42

doesn't make you friends with everybody, but if you're friends with everybody,

Ross: 00:20:44

you're not really friends with anybody.

Joshua: 00:20:46

I think your grandfather and my father who's still alive would probably

Joshua: 00:20:50

get along because those are the sort of things that they would talk about.

Joshua: 00:20:54

I just-

Ross: 00:20:54

Yeah.

Joshua: 00:20:55

I kind of had a flashback, for instance, of my

Joshua: 00:20:57

dad says those sort of things.

Joshua: 00:20:59

It had a lot more curse words, but I'll save them for later afterwards when we

Joshua: 00:21:03

hit the stop button, but Ross, the way that you have seen, even the times in

Joshua: 00:21:10

which your grandfather has gone through and started his own business venture,

Joshua: 00:21:15

and you are doing this business venture, which for those, again, reminding them

Joshua: 00:21:20

that you do Thunder Stock Marketing, have you seen a big shift overall in

Joshua: 00:21:26

our culture when it comes to just being able to value the concept of marketing?

Joshua: 00:21:33

In other words, have you seen a dramatic shift in what might be marketing as it is

Joshua: 00:21:39

now, as it might have been like five years ago, because let's face it, we know that

Joshua: 00:21:44

technology is one of those biggest drivers that you always have to be learning.

Joshua: 00:21:48

You always have to be growing with that; so does that have a big influence on

Joshua: 00:21:52

your business or is there something else?

Ross: 00:21:54

Yeah, absolutely.

Ross: 00:21:55

I feel like I'm so lucky.

Ross: 00:21:57

I would say that, and this is completely biased, but I believe it to be true.

Ross: 00:22:02

I would say five years ago, people would still argue with me that

Ross: 00:22:05

newspaper and radio and television advertising would be a good idea.

Joshua: 00:22:10

Mm-hmm.

Ross: 00:22:10

And I was screaming from the rooftops like, "it's a waste of your

Ross: 00:22:13

fucking money", and now you see these major networks like falling off and

Ross: 00:22:19

complaining about podcasters having 10 times the views as their best talk show

Ross: 00:22:24

host, and you know, from doing marketing and advertising, and focusing on digital

Ross: 00:22:29

and really grassroots, scrappy, like budget friendly, digital, the brands,

Ross: 00:22:37

the people that are doing it right, like The Rock, and George Clooney, and

Ross: 00:22:42

Conor McGregor, take their fame from being an entertainer and they put it

Ross: 00:22:46

into a business, which in those three instances would be liquor, and they

Ross: 00:22:50

make more money by being an influencer marketing for themself, and they're

Ross: 00:22:55

understanding the rules of the game, which is attention is the new oil.

Ross: 00:23:00

You make more money off of garnering attention for your brand, than you

Ross: 00:23:05

do from doing anything else, and you can do that on the internet, and you

Ross: 00:23:08

can't do that with these gate kept Hollywood and, Nashville, these like

Ross: 00:23:15

localities that you had to be at those spaces in order to make it big.

Ross: 00:23:19

There's a country music singer Jelly Roll who never signed a record label

Ross: 00:23:23

and just won three country music CMT Awards, and was on Joe Rogan, and

Ross: 00:23:28

he's just like, "Yeah, I know people.

Ross: 00:23:30

They only get to make 10% of what they sell.

Ross: 00:23:33

I gave you a hundred, and I sell just as much."

Ross: 00:23:36

My point about marketing and media and advertising to reel it all back is that,

Ross: 00:23:42

there is a decentralization and there's this huge opportunity for small business.

Ross: 00:23:47

You don't have to get crushed by big business.

Ross: 00:23:50

It took COVID passing these regulations and laws to crush small business for

Ross: 00:23:55

everyone to realize the small business that they need to be on the internet,

Ross: 00:23:58

like they were just holding out until like the meteorite almost hit them.

Ross: 00:24:02

My closing thought on that is, it's never been a better time for you to be a small

Ross: 00:24:08

business owner in United States, period.

Joshua: 00:24:13

That's so encouraging.

Joshua: 00:24:15

I feel like you could have easily said to me, and I would've bought it into it too.

Joshua: 00:24:19

You would've told me, "Josh, I think that small businesses

Joshua: 00:24:22

are going to go down the tubes.

Joshua: 00:24:24

They're going to be having this big issue because of all

Joshua: 00:24:27

these talks about recessions."

Joshua: 00:24:28

I love the fact that you're challenging that status quo right now, because I

Joshua: 00:24:32

think that small businesses are going to continue to be the most important.

Ross: 00:24:39

Because they solve the need better than big businesses.

Joshua: 00:24:43

Mm-hmm.

Ross: 00:24:44

That's the way it works.

Ross: 00:24:45

When you have a superior service or product and you have a way

Ross: 00:24:50

to reach customers, that's all you need in a business.

Ross: 00:24:54

Everything else is just legal backend shit that you hire a CFO for, no offense, if

Ross: 00:24:58

there are any CFOs out there listening.

Joshua: 00:25:01

That's why we have the whole industry, just based on back office

Joshua: 00:25:04

administrative, "Hey, you can call them that you get a live receptionist."

Joshua: 00:25:08

I can't even think of the name of the brand that I hear that all the time

Joshua: 00:25:11

on the radio when I'm driving around, but that's a just a prime example.

Joshua: 00:25:15

I have to make a quick plug for Charlie Anderson.

Joshua: 00:25:18

Charlie is in Mechanicsburg.

Joshua: 00:25:21

He has started his own podcast himself called The Champions of Small Business.

Joshua: 00:25:26

I'm going to put a link in the show notes where I actually talked about this in

Joshua: 00:25:30

episode three with him about the need to make sure that small businesses continue

Joshua: 00:25:35

to have that voice in it, because I think it's so important, and especially with

Joshua: 00:25:38

what you just said, it is really pivotal.

Joshua: 00:25:42

Ross, getting back to you, because I had to make that plug.

Joshua: 00:25:46

I had to make that plug cuz that was really important.

Joshua: 00:25:48

When you are living in small town America, because you mentioned that quite a lot

Joshua: 00:25:54

about the rural aspects because I know that you grew up in an area where I grew

Joshua: 00:25:59

up, for the beginning part of my life.

Joshua: 00:26:02

Do you see a big shift as to, just piggybacking off of that last question,

Joshua: 00:26:08

do you see a big attitude shift between what rural America thinks as opposed

Joshua: 00:26:12

to what corporate America thinks of small businesses, and if you do,

Joshua: 00:26:18

tell me what you think needs to be done to change that from a marketing

Joshua: 00:26:21

perspective, because I'm really curious now, after you making that statement,

Joshua: 00:26:25

I want you to really sell it to me now.

Ross: 00:26:27

So rural America versus corporate America's perspective on small business?

Joshua: 00:26:32

Correct.

Ross: 00:26:33

I would say that metropolitan areas did not respect rural America

Ross: 00:26:37

nearly enough, and also I've been a real estate since 2019, so I also look at

Ross: 00:26:45

real estate trends and what's going on.

Ross: 00:26:47

If you look at what happened since 2020, the three states I would say for the first

Ross: 00:26:52

24 months of COVID that had the largest exodus, were maybe five, okay, I'll

just say top five: 00:26:58

California, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New York, and New Jersey.

Joshua: 00:27:03

Wow.

Ross: 00:27:04

Densely populated blue, like politically blue states.

Ross: 00:27:09

Chicago has like the majority.

Ross: 00:27:12

That city is the third largest United States, and it's like the

Ross: 00:27:15

Mecca of the Midwest, and you just see them, where are they going?

Ross: 00:27:18

They're going to Texas, Florida.

Ross: 00:27:22

They're like Boise, Idaho was the number one city to be a real estate investor

Ross: 00:27:27

in for the last like three years.

Ross: 00:27:28

They're going to red states that have a lot less population density, that have a

Ross: 00:27:35

lot less regulation, that are much more business owner, tax friendly, and people

Ross: 00:27:42

are just like saying, "You know what?

Ross: 00:27:44

I can work from home.

Ross: 00:27:45

I can work remote.

Ross: 00:27:47

I'm going to work where there's less crime and cheaper housing and

Ross: 00:27:50

more outside things to do and better weather.", and it's just from a real

Ross: 00:27:56

estate perspective, the states that went red in 2020 election, not to be

Ross: 00:28:01

political again, it's just a fact.

Ross: 00:28:04

They are getting the most people moving there, and that's

Ross: 00:28:09

where tax dollars follow.

Ross: 00:28:11

The narrative of mainstream and corporate America can be whatever it wants,

Ross: 00:28:14

but the statistics are saying that small business is kicking their ass.

Ross: 00:28:18

Not only that, but startup business.

Ross: 00:28:20

Look at Austin, Texas, for example.

Ross: 00:28:22

Startup hub of probably the world.

Ross: 00:28:24

It's now also the hub of barbecue.

Ross: 00:28:27

It's also the hub of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu.

Ross: 00:28:29

It is a FinTech hub.

Ross: 00:28:31

It's a South by Southwest; it's a culture hub.

Ross: 00:28:35

That's just a bunch of people that are like, "You know what?

Ross: 00:28:38

We love freedom.

Ross: 00:28:38

We love the free market, and we're not going to put up with shit and

Ross: 00:28:43

just figure it out on our own."

Ross: 00:28:45

I think you can't kill the American spirit.

Ross: 00:28:47

You can't kill the American dream.

Ross: 00:28:48

You can try, but once you have a taste of freedom, you don't want to go back,

Ross: 00:28:52

and that's why every other country in the world looks at us as thought leaders.

Ross: 00:28:57

Everyone's like, "Oh no, China going to take over."

Ross: 00:28:59

Yeah.

Ross: 00:28:59

Okay.

Ross: 00:29:00

What's the migration pattern from an international standpoint?

Ross: 00:29:02

Are people moving to China to raise their families?

Ross: 00:29:04

Are they moving from China to here?

Ross: 00:29:06

Like, what's happening?

Ross: 00:29:07

I don't know.

Ross: 00:29:08

I'm not saying one's good or bad.

Ross: 00:29:09

I'm just asking you what's happening.

Joshua: 00:29:11

Exactly.

Ross: 00:29:12

I think that follows that; hopefully that answers your question.

Joshua: 00:29:14

It does.

Joshua: 00:29:15

You answered and so much more.

Joshua: 00:29:17

Ross, we're getting closer to the end of our time, but I have one final

Joshua: 00:29:20

question before I give you a few minutes to pitch Thunder Stock Marketing and

Joshua: 00:29:23

anything else you'd like to pitch.

Joshua: 00:29:25

What would you say to somebody that is on the fence still after hearing

Joshua: 00:29:29

this awesome conversation, which I mean it, this has been an awesome

Joshua: 00:29:32

conversation to have with you.

Joshua: 00:29:35

What would you say to somebody that's still on the fence of, "Man, I have

Joshua: 00:29:39

this small business idea, I just don't think it has any worth, and I know it

Joshua: 00:29:43

needs a lot of marketing behind it.

Joshua: 00:29:45

What would you say to somebody to give them advice, to finally push them

Joshua: 00:29:48

off the cliff and to make them do it?

Joshua: 00:29:50

Do you have anything that you want to share?

Ross: 00:29:53

The definition that I think of when I think of someone that is

Ross: 00:29:58

smart or someone that is successful is someone who has done things.

Ross: 00:30:04

You can plan and you can think about doing, and you can dream

Ross: 00:30:08

all you want, but if you don't take action, that's just not real.

Ross: 00:30:12

There is a probably a quote from, I want to say William Blake, that says,

Ross: 00:30:17

"True desire cannot be restrained."

Ross: 00:30:20

If you really wanted to do it, you would do it.

Ross: 00:30:23

It sounds like you want to talk about doing it, because you get some

Ross: 00:30:26

dopamine hits from talking about your idea, and as far as like a business,

Ross: 00:30:31

you just need to sell a thing to a customer, and now you're in business.

Ross: 00:30:35

Just find a customer, and then to continue your business, you find

Ross: 00:30:38

more customers or you serve that customer more and more and more.

Ross: 00:30:42

That's how you grow a business; like it's not that hard, but it is, it's

Ross: 00:30:47

not that complicated, but it is hard because it requires work and at work it

Ross: 00:30:51

is not just like intense effort one day.

Ross: 00:30:54

It's consistent applied effort over time.

Ross: 00:30:57

There's nothing to it.

Ross: 00:30:58

I mean, it took me, shoot, probably 21 months to be from starting a holding

Ross: 00:31:07

company, private equity firm, before we actually had one business that we owned.

Ross: 00:31:12

We had $0 valuation for 21 months.

Ross: 00:31:15

We had no funding.

Ross: 00:31:16

I was just marketing and I was just doing as much PR and sales as I

Ross: 00:31:20

could to get our name out there.

Ross: 00:31:21

We had nothing for 21 months, but then after that, in like 15

Ross: 00:31:26

months, we had 10 plus million dollars of yearly recurring revenue.

Ross: 00:31:30

It takes time.

Ross: 00:31:31

Don't procrastinate, like if you want to do something, the best time

Ross: 00:31:35

in plant a tree was 20 years ago.

Ross: 00:31:36

The next best day time to do it is now.

Joshua: 00:31:41

You make me feel better knowing that I'm in the end of month six going

Joshua: 00:31:45

into the maybe this 21 month journey myself, knowing that I have hope and I

Joshua: 00:31:51

know that it's just about persistent-

Ross: 00:31:53

it just takes, it takes one great customer.

Joshua: 00:31:55

Yes, it does.

Joshua: 00:31:56

You're right.

Ross: 00:31:56

It changes your whole life.

Joshua: 00:31:58

Ross, this has been an awesome conversation.

Joshua: 00:32:00

I want you to pitch a little bit about your company, Thunder Stock Marketing.

Joshua: 00:32:03

I also understand you have a podcast.

Joshua: 00:32:05

I would love for you to give a shout out to maybe some people that want

Joshua: 00:32:08

to go check you out too, so I'll give you a few minutes to do that.

Ross: 00:32:12

Sure, thanks Joshua.

Ross: 00:32:13

I would love to have you on the Thunder Stock Show too, if

Ross: 00:32:15

you'd be willing to be a guest.

Joshua: 00:32:17

I would love the, I would love the-

Ross: 00:32:18

Pod for Pod

Joshua: 00:32:19

Tit for tat.

Joshua: 00:32:19

Yeah.

Joshua: 00:32:20

Pod for Pod.

Joshua: 00:32:20

I love it.

Joshua: 00:32:21

I would take you up on that.

Ross: 00:32:23

Very cool, man.

Ross: 00:32:24

My podcast is called The Thunder Stock Show.

Ross: 00:32:27

You can find it on Apple or Spotify, and probably a whole bunch

Ross: 00:32:31

of other podcast places, but the major ones, you'll find it there.

Ross: 00:32:35

That's valuable brainstorms to enhance your life, liberty,

Ross: 00:32:38

and pursuit of property.

Ross: 00:32:40

A lot of them are solo.

Ross: 00:32:41

They're my brainstorms and some of them are interviews.

Ross: 00:32:45

My main business is Thunder Stock Marketing.

Ross: 00:32:48

I'm a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer that services business to

Ross: 00:32:51

business, small business owners that are doing less than 20 million

Ross: 00:32:56

dollars a year, and want to increase their net profit within 12 months.

Ross: 00:33:01

What I do as a fractional CMO real quick is I delegate everything but leadership,

Ross: 00:33:07

I help manage and lead the team.

Ross: 00:33:09

I also manage and lead the strategy; the plan.

Ross: 00:33:12

When it comes to execution, I'll help find the resources.

Ross: 00:33:16

I'll take someone's business goals from the top line perspective of growth,

Ross: 00:33:22

and it'll help them become a reality within 90 days of a sprint plan.

Ross: 00:33:26

I'm also a licensed real estate sales agent with Iron Valley Real Estate

Ross: 00:33:32

out of Lebanon, and what I'm currently working on there is i'm helping friends,

Ross: 00:33:38

clients of mine, that have had the dream of being small business owners to

Ross: 00:33:43

buy cash flowing existing businesses.

Ross: 00:33:46

These businesses through Iron Valley Real estate, oftentimes like laundromats

Ross: 00:33:50

or stores, units or restaurants, the business is the physical location,

Ross: 00:33:55

so a life hack for a business owner is to own the real estate also.

Ross: 00:34:00

I use my real estate license in that sense.

Ross: 00:34:03

I'm a seasoned private equity mergers acquisition professional.

Ross: 00:34:07

I also love helping business owners to buy or sell businesses, and I can help

Ross: 00:34:12

you to increase the value of your business if you want to sell, and I can help

Ross: 00:34:16

you find good deals if you want to buy.

Joshua: 00:34:19

Ross, if we want to get in contact with you, can you share us

Joshua: 00:34:22

a quick couple things that they could reach out with you with?

Ross: 00:34:25

Absolutely.

Ross: 00:34:26

You can find me on social media.

Ross: 00:34:29

My handle on LinkedIn is Jay Ross Stockdale.

Ross: 00:34:34

My website is www.thunderstockmarketing.com.

Ross: 00:34:38

You can email me at j.ross.stockdale@gmail.com, and if

Ross: 00:34:44

you search for me on social media, the nice thing is the same headshot

Ross: 00:34:47

will apply and it will be me, so you should be able to find me.

Joshua: 00:34:51

Branding at its best; having it so that's consistent across.

Joshua: 00:34:55

That is all awesome.

Joshua: 00:34:56

I'm going to put all of that plus a link to your podcast into the show notes.

Joshua: 00:35:01

Ross, this has been an awesome conversation.

Joshua: 00:35:03

Thanks for speaking your heart with us today.

Ross: 00:35:06

Thanks for having me.

Joshua: 00:35:08

I want to thank Ross again from Thunder Stock Marketing, for being able to

Joshua: 00:35:12

be on the show with me and really feature his business, and I really encourage all

Joshua: 00:35:16

of you to go check out his website if you are looking to get some help and getting

Joshua: 00:35:20

some assistance with a small business that you have, especially when it comes to the

Joshua: 00:35:24

variety of services he spoke about here.

Joshua: 00:35:27

I definitely encourage you to do that.

Joshua: 00:35:29

I love Ross's attitude during this interview in that, it

Joshua: 00:35:33

was very lighthearted, and then we got into, "Well, why?

Joshua: 00:35:37

Why is this happening?", and we were joking around even before and after with

Joshua: 00:35:41

this getting to understand each other a little bit more, and I think that

Joshua: 00:35:45

it's really important that we do find ways in which we encourage each other

Joshua: 00:35:50

to create not only those values, not only for our small business, but also

Joshua: 00:35:54

for the things that we do personally in our lives, because they all are

Joshua: 00:35:59

interconnected, and I think Ross was able to talk about that quite well with

Joshua: 00:36:03

all of us because we are getting older.

Joshua: 00:36:06

We have to be ready for this, as he was mentioning early on during the

Joshua: 00:36:11

interview, that sometimes even age catches up to you about the things

Joshua: 00:36:15

that you used to be able to do, but now you are doing it for yourself.

Joshua: 00:36:21

I've had that experience myself talking about the many things that are happening

Joshua: 00:36:25

in my own life, especially with family, with friends; those are the things

Joshua: 00:36:29

that, at one point I was being mentored, but now I'm the one that's mentoring

Joshua: 00:36:34

them, because of the things that are going on personally in our own lives.

Joshua: 00:36:38

I really think that it's important also for us to consider the fact that if we

Joshua: 00:36:43

tell the truth, we don't take shit and we give them hell, especially from what

Joshua: 00:36:48

Ross's grandfather would say, I think that will help us all to get to one point

Joshua: 00:36:53

to another from time to time, and I know that for many of us, those were old style

Joshua: 00:37:00

thinking of ways in which we were able to work through problems back then, and those

Joshua: 00:37:07

are the things that we shouldn't do today.

Joshua: 00:37:09

Well, I want to challenge you on that for a little bit, because I think it's

Joshua: 00:37:13

really important for us to understand that we can adapt those same values

Joshua: 00:37:20

in a wide variety of different, more culturally appropriate, even more

Joshua: 00:37:25

societal appropriate ways of today.

Joshua: 00:37:28

There are many techniques to do that.

Joshua: 00:37:31

Coaching that I do works on those variety of ways without sacrificing the main

Joshua: 00:37:36

principle message, because let's face it, sometimes we do have to get our

Joshua: 00:37:40

point across, because someone is simply not listening to what we're saying, and

Joshua: 00:37:45

sometimes that hard truth has to come out.

Joshua: 00:37:48

Ross talked about that, especially with working with some clients in which he

Joshua: 00:37:52

had to break it down for them and make them understand the true importance

Joshua: 00:37:56

of what he was trying to say to them.

Joshua: 00:37:58

I have to do that from time to time myself with my own clients, pointing

Joshua: 00:38:02

out some of the things that are really holding them back and making them

Joshua: 00:38:06

start to process that, and it's not a easy, it's not a clean exercise, as a

Joshua: 00:38:11

matter of fact, it's the hardest, most messiest thing you could possibly do,

Joshua: 00:38:16

but you need to give universal respect.

Joshua: 00:38:19

You need to be able to understand that there is a right way to do

Joshua: 00:38:23

it, and then there is a wrong way.

Joshua: 00:38:25

There is a way in which we can be insensitive to some of the people that

Joshua: 00:38:30

we are trying to help and that is not helping you in your business, and if you

Joshua: 00:38:34

are doing that, please reach out to me.

Joshua: 00:38:37

We can talk about that.

Joshua: 00:38:39

We can talk about ways in which you can reframe that conversation.

Joshua: 00:38:42

You can help yourself to work on that plan by dealing with it in a different

Joshua: 00:38:46

way or a different approach, and it's totally all right to do that.

Joshua: 00:38:51

I am always constantly evaluating myself in ways in which I have to work

Joshua: 00:38:55

with others, especially even being a small business owner of my own.

Joshua: 00:38:59

Each strategy that I do is not clear cut, and I learned that the hard way,

Joshua: 00:39:04

especially even starting out in my young business, but, part of the things that

Joshua: 00:39:09

I've learned in the 13 years that I have been involved with working is that it

Joshua: 00:39:14

is not simply a button that you press on an email that can solve everything.

Joshua: 00:39:20

You have to take some responsibility.

Joshua: 00:39:24

You have to understand what is truly important for us to create some of

Joshua: 00:39:28

that bracing that we need to do, and I love that term that Ross used.

Joshua: 00:39:33

Bracing is getting ready for the news that is needed to be heard in our lives.

Joshua: 00:39:39

It's a changing world.

Joshua: 00:39:40

We get it.

Joshua: 00:39:42

We see it all the time with all these different things that are happening.

Joshua: 00:39:46

What is not happening is sometimes the things that we need to do,

Joshua: 00:39:50

because those are the things that are often pushed to the side.

Joshua: 00:39:55

I know that it could be very tough for us to give that opportunity, and

Joshua: 00:40:00

I've talked about that so many times in so many different episodes, and I

Joshua: 00:40:04

almost sound like I'm a broken record, but do you see the consistency with

Joshua: 00:40:09

each of my guests that I've had on so far, sharing those aspects with us?

Joshua: 00:40:15

It's not just about feeling comfortable.

Joshua: 00:40:18

We need to be able to get comfortable in order to have a routine to create

Joshua: 00:40:22

that activity that generates revenue, it generates friendships and networking

Joshua: 00:40:27

opportunities, but on a personal level, it allows us to be bold.

Joshua: 00:40:32

It allows us to be extraordinary.

Joshua: 00:40:34

It allows us to be able to connect with person, places and things.

Joshua: 00:40:39

The very things that we learn in grade school that are called nouns, and

Joshua: 00:40:43

nouns are the most important things that help us to generate some of the

Joshua: 00:40:48

most influential wealth in our lives.

Joshua: 00:40:53

No, I'm not talking about money.

Joshua: 00:40:55

Did that go right to your head?

Joshua: 00:40:57

No, don't think of it that way.

Joshua: 00:41:00

Money is just the byproduct of all of it.

Joshua: 00:41:03

When I talk about the richness, the ability to feel all everlasting and

Joshua: 00:41:09

all feeling good inside, almost like a Cinderella story; it's about being

Joshua: 00:41:14

able to feel connected personally and professionally and knowing so

Joshua: 00:41:21

well that it is all working on one engine and everything is good to go

Joshua: 00:41:26

to land the plane or to take off.

Joshua: 00:41:31

Really, it's about having that true desire, what we really want to pursue,

Joshua: 00:41:37

and sometimes finding that in the fog of an England night into the

Joshua: 00:41:41

morning is really the toughest thing.

Joshua: 00:41:45

I know that it can be difficult; doesn't matter where you are living in

Joshua: 00:41:50

this world, it is a challenge because that takes into account humanity, the

Joshua: 00:41:56

emotions that we have deep inside of ourselves that have to think about what

Joshua: 00:42:00

is needed so that we can brace for impact.

Joshua: 00:42:04

Ross's marketing style is something that is truly remarkable.

Joshua: 00:42:09

He's learned that from many different mentors and opportunities that

Joshua: 00:42:12

has been presented in front of him and has created some of the most

Joshua: 00:42:16

exciting wealth opportunities that anybody could ever have as a small

Joshua: 00:42:20

business owner, but that's just it.

Joshua: 00:42:23

He works with small business owners.

Joshua: 00:42:26

He doesn't want to deal with corporate America, the

Joshua: 00:42:28

biggest entities of the world.

Joshua: 00:42:31

He doesn't want to go into cities.

Joshua: 00:42:34

He's grew up in the country, the countryside in which I grew up living

Joshua: 00:42:38

on a Alpine Nubian goat farm, being able to raise chickens, horses, cows, you

Joshua: 00:42:45

name it, I've probably had it because of my mom and dad one time or another.

Joshua: 00:42:51

Ross definitely understood that, and that's why he created his own

Joshua: 00:42:56

niche, and that is what is important for you: to find your own niche.

Joshua: 00:43:02

It's not easy.

Joshua: 00:43:04

It takes trial and error.

Joshua: 00:43:07

It's not always going to be clean cut, and that's why there are coaches and mentors

Joshua: 00:43:11

out there waiting for you to embrace that opportunity when you're ready for

Joshua: 00:43:15

it, and I hope you take advantage of it because of our interview today with Ross.

Joshua: 00:43:20

I know that you can feel comfortable even as you get older, because I know that

Joshua: 00:43:25

for many of us, we do want to have that passion, that ability to move forward, and

Joshua: 00:43:30

that is the key to unlocking true success, even if you are just marketing yourself.

Joshua: 00:43:38

Thanks for listening to episode number 20 of Speaking from the

Joshua: 00:43:40

Heart, and I look forward to hearing from your heart very soon.

Outro: 00:43:44

Thanks for listening.

Outro: 00:43:45

For more information about our podcast and future shows, search for Speaking From

Outro: 00:43:50

The Heart to subscribe and be notified wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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Outro: 00:44:01

services that can help you create the best version of yourself.