Episode #104 - Gaining Focus & Clarity In All Applications: An Interview With Robert Wolfe

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Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

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determination all converge into

an amazing, heartfelt experience.

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This is Speaking From The Heart.

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Joshua: Welcome back to episode

number 104 of Speaking from the Heart.

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Today, we have Robert Wolfe joining

us, and Robert is the founder and

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chief instructor of Itten Dojo,

which began martial arts training

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in 1975 and has taught since 1985.

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He holds black belt ranks in multiple

martial arts and was awarded a bachelor

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of arts degree in Japanese studies

from Bucknell University, which is

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located in northern Pennsylvania

re my grandmother grew up, in: 1978

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The focus of Itten Dojo is personal

transformation through challenging

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training and practical skills.

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Mr.

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Wolfe retired from federal civil service

after a 40 plus year career with the U.

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S.

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Navy as a logistician.

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As Director of Maritime Industrial

Support, he managed a department

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responsible for supporting the four

naval shipyards with maintenance

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and modernization of nuclear

submarines and aircraft carriers.

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A highlight of his career was receiving

the Navy Meritus Civilian Service Award,

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the third highest decoration possible

for civilian employees of the Navy.

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As an author, Mr.

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Wolfe has published numerous articles

addressing the martial arts in a

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variety of periodicals, from popular

magazines to academic journals.

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As a curiosity to myself, I've always

been interested in Japanese culture and

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the way in which it has interacted with

the martial arts community as a whole.

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Martial arts go back several centuries,

going back to even the empire that

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Japan had, and even then, what really is

interesting about Robert and his overall

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story is that he took a dojo, which

essentially is something that you normally

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think about in movies like The Karate Kid

as being this vicious, mean atmosphere,

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but really open my eyes to the possibility

that martial arts, particularly Japanese

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swordsmanship, can definitely create not

just those best impacts in our different

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areas by focusing and concentration, but

it helps us to grow and evolve in our

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personal and professional development.

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What I really love about our interview

today isn't just about the fact that

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we have this structure that we can

build to create opportunities, but

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that we can build upon the mental and

physical focuses of a repetitiveness

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to be able to not only have better

swordsmanship, but to go through the

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notions that we oftentimes usually

forget about with not only improving

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ourselves, but becoming more self aware

of our surroundings and who we are.

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But with that let's go to the episode.

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We're here with Robert Wolfe.

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Robert, thanks for sharing

your heart with us today.

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Robert: Thank you, Joshua.

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I really appreciate the

chance to speak with you.

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Joshua: I appreciate it as well, and

I have to say, I have not had somebody

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from a dojo on my show yet, so you

have that honor, so thank you so

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much for being able to share a little

bit of your insights with us today.

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Robert, I noticed that you went to school

at Bucknell University, which was very

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close to where my grandmother grew up.

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She grew up around the Sunbury,

Shamokin Dam area in Pennsylvania,

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and I'm just curious, what led you,

just to start off, what led you into

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actually studying Japanese at Bucknell?

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I'm really curious about the backstory.

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Robert: The biggest influence is my father

was a Marine during World War II in Korea,

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and he fought on Iwo Jima against the

Japanese forces, and he always had a huge

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respect for the Japanese as warriors and

opponents, and he also had the experiences

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of teaching Jujutsu while he was in

the Marine Corps, so, somewhere along

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the line, just from knowing that, I had

always had as far back as I can remember,

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an interest in Japanese martial arts.

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I never had an opportunity to actually

train until I got to college, but

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the original source would have

been my father and his experiences.

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Joshua: Did your father mentor you and

actually teach you this growing up?

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Robert: Very little.

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A few things he had shown

me, but not too much at all.

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He wasn't really interested

in letting me do any kind of

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martial arts when I was younger.

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I'm not really sure why, but it didn't

become an opportunity for me until later.

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Joshua: I find that sometimes either

a father or mother shows you something

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and they want you to walk in your

footsteps, or they don't, and they

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want you to do something special in

your career, and I've had a variety of

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different people in the show that have

done that sort of thing that kind of

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create their own manifest destiny as I

like to call, it and speaking of that,

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you and I have something in common in

which we have both been civil servants.

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I'm actually a state government employee

for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, and

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I noticed that you have had a rich career

in federal employment, and I was wondering

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if you could tell the audience a little

bit about what motivated you knowing that

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you worked over 40 years with the U.S.

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Navy.

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I was wondering if that gave you some

perspective and what you ultimately had

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started or had worked on at the dojo.

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Robert: There were some things that

I learned working for the government

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that I apply in managing my business,

but the main advantage to me in

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having worked for the government was

that it gave me more control over my

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personal life than a lot of careers do.

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If I had not had that control,

I would not have been able

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to start the dojo when I did.

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There's always some opportunity that

you have to do over time and you have

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to do this or have to travel for work,,

but that was really a minimal impact

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overall, so, I was very grateful for

the opportunity to work where I did.

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I had a successful career with

the Federal Civil Service.

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I worked, as you mentioned,

for the Navy as a logistician.

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I'm not especially into blowing

things up and hurting people.

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Joshua: Thank goodness.

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Robert: I kind of focused in my career

as to trying to help the people that

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were in the offices that I managed.

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I became a manager fairly early in

my career, and then always focused

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on trying to provide opportunities

and help other people get ahead in

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their lives more so than focusing

on the military aspects per se.

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Joshua: Was that with the civilian

population that you served or was it with

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other individuals in the Navy itself, so

those that were actually actively serving.

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Did you help both of those, and if

so, how did you actually do that?

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Robert: It was a limited extent

of helping active duty military

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in various positions that I had.

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I would have a military officer as

a deputy to my director role, and

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I did try to help them sometimes

with recommendations with higher up

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authorities; consideration for various

promotions or awards or things like that.

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Very limited opportunity to do that, but

when I had an opportunity I did act on it.

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Most of the time, it involved helping

civilian employees with either job

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progression, advancement, recommendations

for promotions to other positions.

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Those kinds of things were much more

typical in what I was able to do.

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Joshua: What would you say was the

most rewarding opportunity when you

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were doing that to help others that

you can think of, and you don't have

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to mention their name, but I'm just

curious of somebody that you made a big,

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strong impact on as a result of helping

them get to where they are, either

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yesterday or even today for that matter.

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Robert: Well, this is going to sound kind

of funny, but when the government created

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its newer retirement system, the old

system was civil service retirement, and

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then they brought in the federal employees

retirement system, and there was a huge PR

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push to get people to switch from the old

system into the new system, and I was a

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manager at that time, and everybody in my

office was asking me, "What should we do?

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What should we do?", and I said, "Well,

let's watch what Congress does, because

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those so and sos are not going to mess

with themselves", and Congress stayed

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in the old system, and so we all stayed

in the old system, and for the rest

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of my career, every time one of those

people was ready to retire, they found

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me, and thanked me for making that

recommendation because there's a reason

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they don't have the old system anymore

because it costs them too much money.

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Joshua: Yeah, and that's what

happened even to me for that matter.

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I thankfully did not get into a

newer system that they have nowadays.

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I'm actually in an older system because of

the start date of when that took effect,

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so I completely understand that, not only

from the federal aspect, from the state

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aspect as well, because I've had plenty of

years working even out of the retirement

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system for the state of Pennsylvania to

know better as well, so Robert, I noticed,

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and I even mentioned to the audience

that you had this award bestowed upon you

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at the highlight of your career, which

is the Navy Meritus Civilian Service

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Award, the third highest decoration.

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First off, congratulations on that

because that's a big deal for many

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people that have been able to do a

lot of great service, especially for

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government, but when you received that

award, tell me your thoughts and feelings

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about receiving that, because you seem

to be this sort of person to me that

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is very humble about it, and it's just

willing to do it for the common good.

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That's the impression I get,

but maybe you can correct me if

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I'm wrong about that assumption.

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Robert: Well, obviously

it was a huge honor.

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I only know a few people over my 40 year

career that received that award, and it

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was awarded on the basis of the actions

of my office in the last few years that

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I worked for the federal government, and

it's realistically more of a reflection

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on what the office produced as a team

than any individual action I did.

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I always try to focus on the individuals

in the office and making things as good

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for them as I could, because I always

believed that you're going to be in

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the office for eight or nine hours a

day trying to make it as pleasant and

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experience as possible was going to

result in higher productivity, more

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motivation, people going the extra

mile on stuff, so that's what I focused

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on, and I was successful in building

offices that had different focuses at

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different times, different aspects of

the overall operation, but I followed

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the same kind of general approach in each

of those instances, and that's what I

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was really recognized for in my career.

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I was not a technical expert on the

things that my offices did, but I

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was expert in creating an office of

experts that could get the job done.

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Joshua: That is so key, especially even

nowadays is it isn't just about me.

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It's about what everybody else is

going to contribute and provide to

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continue that work that needs to be

done, especially in public service.

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That is so important.

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I've had guests on this show that have

been on a variety of different parts

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of government, whether it's the patent

trademark office, even those that have

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worked the beat as a reporter reporting on

what's happened in Capitol Hill, and they

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have shared some of the same highlights

is that we all work together with not only

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the responsibilities and duties, but we

have to be able to empower those people

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to do that, which speaking of empowerment,

you started your dojo and I think that in

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itself is a very unique experience, so,

first off, I think the obvious question

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is, why start a dojo, and when did you

actually start it, because you have

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this successful federal civilian career.

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I'm wondering how that kind of interplayed

when do you actually start that, and

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how you got that all together, so

for those that need a reminder, your

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dojo is located in Mechanicsburg,

Pennsylvania, so literally right up

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the road from where my office is.

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I was wondering if you could

share a little bit about how

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you got started with that.

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Robert: Okay, so as I mentioned, I started

in karate when I was in college, and

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when I was home for the summers, I found

a different style of karate was local

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that I would train in when I was home for

the summers, and then I would train in

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the other style when I was at college.

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After graduating, I eventually started

to train more regularly at the local

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dojo, and that was the Ishinryu Karate

Club that was one of the oldest dojo

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in Pennsylvania that was founded by

Ralph Lindquist back in the early 60s.

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Training in that, I then reached the stage

of my first black belt, and continued

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to train in that style of karate,

which was a traditional Okinawan style.

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, The group of people that were

training eventually got into

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semi professional kickboxing and

we had a lot of fun doing that.

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This was back during the PKA days when

those kinds of matches were covered

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on ESPN and had a lot of attention.

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We actually had a fighter

appear on ESPN fights.

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My wife and I worked the corner for that

fight, so that was a lot of fun, too-

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Joshua: Wow.

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Robert: But this group of guys

morphed more into this kickboxing.

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They wanted to kind of re-engineer most

of the practices toward that, and I was

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resistant of that because I wanted really

to maintain the more traditional aspects.

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Kickboxing is a lot of fun, but it's not

a traditional martial art in that sense.

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It's focused on competition and winning,

which is not necessarily the primary

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emphasis in traditional training, so

as this developed, there were growing

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conflicts between what I was trying

to maintain, because at that point,

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the chief instructor was kind of semi

retired from instructing and had passed

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on to me the responsibility for running

the classes, so there was a bit of

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a tension in what was happening with

trying to hold things traditional and

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other people wanting to go modern, and

it eventually just reached a point where

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it wasn't viable to continue in that.

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My senior student and I, and our wives,

were all training in karate at that time.

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That's how I met my wife at that

dojo, which was meeting at the

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Harrisburg Central Branch Y.

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If things just kind of reached ahead

and we decided it wasn't worth the

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stress of knowing that during class,

you're going to have to essentially

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defend yourself for real at some point

because somebody's going to take a shot

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just to try to prove a point, so then

in: 1992

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and another factor in that was a couple

years prior to that, I had started

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to train in Japanese swordsmanship

at a school in Washington, D.

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C., and that made a huge impact on

me in a lot of ways, and ultimately,

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I wanted to be able to do things the

way I thought they should be done.

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That's the bottom line, but I thought

it was more valuable, to other people

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as well to have the opportunity to train

in a traditional way, so that's what

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kind of led to the founding of the dojo.

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When we founded the dojo, my

senior student was part owner

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of a building in Camp Hill.

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Ironically, his boss had also trained

in that same karate dojo in the early

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60s, and he was not happy that we left

that club, and at that time, the second

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floor of the building was just empty.

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It was nothing there, so it was

available and he said, "Okay.

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You can use the second floor for

two weeks, and then you got to find

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something.", so we were there for seven

and a half years, and he eventually

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thought of the dojo as his dojo.

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This was Mr.

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William Campbell, who was the president of

a food brokerage that had that building,

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and he would always, eventually, have

any potential clients coming into the

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office would be taken up to the second

floor to see the dojo, and it actually

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resulted in someone signing a contract

with them because the guy was a karate

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black belt, and he was, "Oh, yeah.

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Anybody that has their own dojo,

that's who I'm doing business with.",

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so that's how the dojo got started.

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Joshua: Wow.

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That is actually pretty cool to hear

in terms of how it all came about,

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because I think we all have these unique

stories of, "Well, this is how it got

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started for me.", and I think that for

what you and your senior student were

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doing, I think that helped to accentuate

not just what we traditionally hear

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about karate, but also what you have

learned in Japanese swordsmanship, so

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I actually want to distinguish this

right now because I'm sure my listeners

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are thinking of these movies that have

all this different mixed martial arts

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and different types of techniques;

samurais and things of that nature.

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Tell us the real story, though, as to what

you provide at the dojo that relates to

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these different skills that you teach your

students, because I find it to be that

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we have a misconception of what that is,

and I feel that you can set the record

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straight for us as to what you provide

and how that's different from the movies.

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Robert: Okay.

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Over time, we've had opportunity to

train with some of the top people in

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the world in the older martial arts.

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Japanese kind of distinguish between

Korryu, or old school, martial arts

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that were up, until the time of

the samurai being disestablished,

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which really wasn't up until 1876.

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Prior to that, we would say,

okay, the schools were Korryu.

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They were old traditions coming

out of the warring states period.

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After that, it's more Gendai Budo,

which is the more modern things

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like Judo, Karate, Kyudo, more arts

that have transitioned to focusing

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on personal development, rather

than on the defense of the clan and

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being able to kill other people,

so that's the distinguishing thing.

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In swordsmanship, we had opportunity

to train with various people over

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the course of the dojo history.

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We've had like a number of black

swan events that forced us to

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stop training with somebody and

try to find another way to go.

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Through this all, one of the things I

always talk about the dojo is we have

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found over time that the group training

together is the most important thing,

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and the arts that we've trained in

have changed over the years, but having

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the group, the group supporting each

other, having something worthwhile to

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do and pursue in this developmental

context of what these arts provide,

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is the most important thing, so

as for swordsmanship now, we're

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training in Muso Jikiden Eishinryu.

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That means peerless, direct

transmission, true faith style.

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It was found about 450 years ago

by a gentleman named Hayashizaki.

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Like a lot of people in that

time frame, we're talking

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like mid 1500s to early 1600s.

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It's more mythology at

this point than anything.

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A lot of the details of these individuals

lives are not well documented and have

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been embellished a lot over the years,

but it was a real person and he did,

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having spent some time at a particular

shrine in Yamagata Prefecture, had some

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inspiration to start a new school of

swordsmanship that focused on drawing

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the sword, going into an immediate

action, so that is what the Aido is known

284

: 00:20:22

for; drawing the sword into an initial

cut or a block or something like that.

285

: 00:20:28

It would have been developed for guarding

against surprise attacks and things

286

: 00:20:32

like that, whereas Kenjutsu is more

of a style of swordsmanship that the

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: 00:20:37

swords are out, you know you're going

to get in trouble, you might be going

288

: 00:20:40

into a battle, you might be going into

a duel, but the swords are out and the

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: 00:20:46

engagement happens from that point, so

that's how the arts between Iaido and

290

: 00:20:51

Kenjutsu, how those are differently

structured, and the kind of the focus,

291

: 00:20:56

but it's fair to say that most traditional

schools have elements of both, but what

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: 00:21:01

we're training in now is a Shinryu.

293

: 00:21:04

We train under Nicholas Sueno sensei,

who has a dojo in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

294

: 00:21:09

He is essentially a Budo Renaissance man.

295

: 00:21:13

I've known him for a long time, but

didn't get to meet him in person until

296

: 00:21:16

just a few years ago, and once we met,

we were still involved in a different

297

: 00:21:21

organization at that point, and I made

a joke at the end of a seminar weekend

298

: 00:21:26

that if our current organization ever

blows up, I would probably apply to

299

: 00:21:31

become his Japanese martial arts center

east, and that's exactly what happened.

300

: 00:21:36

The organization blew up and we eventually

started to train with Sueno sensei and

301

: 00:21:42

now we have moved into training with

him in a style of jujutsu that his

302

: 00:21:48

teachers have preserved as well, so the

dojo is now functioning at a level it

303

: 00:21:52

has never functioned in the past, and

I'm very grateful for the opportunities

304

: 00:21:57

that have been presented to us, and

at some point we can talk a little bit

305

: 00:22:02

about just what these are to do offer

for people that are trained in them.

306

: 00:22:07

Joshua: Yeah, I actually had that

thought as you were describing each

307

: 00:22:11

of those techniques, which thank you.

308

: 00:22:13

That actually made me learn a lot about

it because there's definitely a deep

309

: 00:22:17

respect of the arts and how they are

coveted and used even in today's modern

310

: 00:22:22

standard, but you said something that

was even unique in itself, too, that

311

: 00:22:26

even if it blows up, I know that there's

somebody I can count on, and I think

312

: 00:22:30

that's important too, that this sort

of framework, what we're trying to do,

313

: 00:22:34

whether it is becoming the best version

of ourselves, which is what I try to work

314

: 00:22:39

on with the emotional mental impacts.

315

: 00:22:42

You are physically training in

that, which has a effect in the

316

: 00:22:46

emotional aspects of it as well.

317

: 00:22:48

Robert: Absolutely.

318

: 00:22:49

Joshua: So that's actually what I

want to ask you is how do these arts

319

: 00:22:53

help others, and I would love to hear

your personal perspective because

320

: 00:22:56

I know that you've been training in

this obviously for over 30 years, so

321

: 00:23:00

I wondering if it's had some positive

effects for you too that you can share.

322

: 00:23:05

Robert: Yeah, I'm just shy of 50

years in these arts at this point.

323

: 00:23:09

Joshua: Good point.

324

: 00:23:10

I was thinking of only

the business, so yeah-

325

: 00:23:12

Robert: Yeah.

326

: 00:23:12

No, because I was decades

before that dojo was started.

327

: 00:23:17

To take the example of a Shinryu, this

style of Iaido that we're training in,

328

: 00:23:22

a lot of the training is solo forms

and you're using a weapon called an

329

: 00:23:29

Iaito, which is an alloy bladed Japanese

sword that cannot be sharpened, and

330

: 00:23:37

that was developed after World War II.

331

: 00:23:39

Originally, these arts were practiced

with live swords; real steel, sharp

332

: 00:23:45

three foot butcher knives, and we have

those in the dojo as well, but after the

333

: 00:23:50

occupation forces took over in Japan, and

people were not allowed to be using real

334

: 00:23:55

swords, in order to continue to train,

they had to develop something that the

335

: 00:24:00

occupation forces would accept, so they

developed these alloy bladed training

336

: 00:24:05

weapons that are non functional as a

weapon, but they're really delightful

337

: 00:24:11

to use for this style of training.

338

: 00:24:12

They've put a huge amount of effort

into the development of these swords.

339

: 00:24:16

They're perfectly balanced.

340

: 00:24:18

They're really, really pleasant to use,

so a lot of the training is in solo forms,

341

: 00:24:24

but there is also paired forms using

wooden swords that are more interactive

342

: 00:24:28

between two people so that you get an

idea of the distancing and timing and

343

: 00:24:33

things of how these would have actually

been used, but especially when you're

344

: 00:24:37

doing the solo forms that are the core

of the art, it really comes down to

345

: 00:24:42

structure in terms of physical structure.

346

: 00:24:46

It ultimately is about the generation

and application of power, but in

347

: 00:24:51

order to do that, you have to have

physical structure that's optimized

348

: 00:24:56

for a particular purpose, so it's very

defined in terms of what the ideal is.

349

: 00:25:04

Now the actual structure individual to

individual may change a little bit just

350

: 00:25:10

because of different body types and length

of limbs and things like that, but the

351

: 00:25:14

template does not change what you're

striving for is set, and that process of

352

: 00:25:22

trying to manifest an idealized structure

and movement pattern is very, very mental.

353

: 00:25:29

It's obviously tremendous physical

exercise, but it is very intense

354

: 00:25:34

mental exercise, because you have to

understand and visualize the pattern

355

: 00:25:39

that you're trying to achieve, and

that kind of repetitive over years

356

: 00:25:45

of time, of configuring yourself in

very specific ways, carries over into

357

: 00:25:52

a lot of other things that you do.

358

: 00:25:54

It makes you generally more organized,

more observant, more sensitive to

359

: 00:26:01

your own body and what you feel,

so there's all kinds of outcomes

360

: 00:26:05

directly just from what would appear

to be an overtly physical process.

361

: 00:26:12

Joshua: I think people oftentimes just

think of only the physical aspects, not

362

: 00:26:16

the actual ramifications of the good

things that come out of this, and to

363

: 00:26:20

reiterate this question, it sounds like

to me that you have been able to focus.

364

: 00:26:26

You've been able to be more sensitive.

365

: 00:26:28

You've been able to be more

organized as a result of doing this.

366

: 00:26:31

Is that true?

367

: 00:26:32

Robert: Yeah, absolutely, and you

can also very strongly emphasize the

368

: 00:26:37

fact that none of this stuff is easy.

369

: 00:26:40

When people join the

dojo, I tell them, "Look.

370

: 00:26:42

I don't know what your back story is.

371

: 00:26:44

I don't know what you've been through in

your life, but I'm willing to bet that

372

: 00:26:48

undertaking this training is probably

going to be one of the most difficult, if

373

: 00:26:52

not the most difficult, thing you've ever

attempted to do.", and, as a corollary

374

: 00:26:58

to that, I usually say, "So whatever you

think this is going to be, it isn't, and

375

: 00:27:04

it's going to be a shock to the system,

so promise yourself that you're going to

376

: 00:27:08

get through three months, at a minimum,

no matter what, and at the end of three

377

: 00:27:14

months, if you just don't like it, that's

fine, because it's not for everyone, but

378

: 00:27:20

by that time you have a fair assessment

of what it's about and what it can do for

379

: 00:27:25

you", and usually if people persist to

that point, they're good to go, and they

380

: 00:27:30

will train for an extended period of time.

381

: 00:27:34

One of the things that comes out of

the training, because of the element

382

: 00:27:40

of discomfort with it, whether it's

the Iaido or the Jujutsu or any of the

383

: 00:27:44

other traditional arts, you get used to

dealing with discomfort, which then is

384

: 00:27:50

hugely valuable, especially in an office

environment, because so much of any given

385

: 00:27:57

day, you're dealing with stuff that's

not fun, and doesn't make you feel great

386

: 00:28:02

necessarily, but if you have a greater

capacity for putting up with stuff in the

387

: 00:28:07

pursuit of a larger goal, that pays off.

388

: 00:28:12

Joshua: I can't stress that enough, and I

was literally thinking about the fact that

389

: 00:28:16

I could see how this has so many benefits,

whether you are an office worker,

390

: 00:28:21

whether you are on a factory production

floor, or even a distribution center.

391

: 00:28:26

It takes mental focus and clarity

sometimes, even with the mundane that you

392

: 00:28:31

might do, this is a lot more challenging

than just doing those sort of things.

393

: 00:28:36

It is something that it takes great

discipline in doing, which I want to

394

: 00:28:40

lead with this with the audience, Robert,

because you mentioned this on your

395

: 00:28:45

website, and I just want to read it to you

just in case you need to have a reminder

396

: 00:28:49

of what this says, but this is under

somebody that is interested in being a

397

: 00:28:53

member, which if you want to check out

the website, I'll have it in the episode

398

: 00:28:56

notes for the listeners, but you say

that, "The arts are about becoming more

399

: 00:29:00

than you were the day before, becoming

more in ways that have the potential

400

: 00:29:03

to affect, in a very positive manner,

virtually every aspect of your life.

401

: 00:29:08

The practical, effective self defense

skills you will gain are almost a side

402

: 00:29:12

benefit.", so I find that statement to be

so revolutionary because most people are

403

: 00:29:18

thinking, "Well, I'm going to go learn how

to defend myself", but you're saying, "No.

404

: 00:29:23

That isn't what this is about."

405

: 00:29:25

I'm wondering if you can clarify for

the audience what this truly is, if they

406

: 00:29:28

would to take on any of the different

styles of Japanese swordsmanship that

407

: 00:29:33

you have mentioned here throughout the

show today that would be helpful for

408

: 00:29:37

people to reflect on, especially if

they want to engage in such an activity.

409

: 00:29:41

Robert: I will preface it by saying

that the ability to defend yourself

410

: 00:29:46

is a aspect that you will gain

in these arts, depending on how

411

: 00:29:50

you train and what you train in.

412

: 00:29:52

That is an outcome, and even in

something as unlikely as swordsmanship,

413

: 00:29:58

I know individuals who, as first

responders, had to defend themselves

414

: 00:30:04

using sword techniques against

an armed attack, because they

415

: 00:30:09

had an implement in their hands.

416

: 00:30:10

In one case, one of the aluminum

flashlights that are about

417

: 00:30:13

two and a half feet long.

418

: 00:30:15

Objects that are about the same

size and shape as a sword, people

419

: 00:30:18

have used them in self defense.

420

: 00:30:20

It's more likely in unarmed cases and

whatnot but that is an obvious outcome.

421

: 00:30:27

The thing is, though, the

process of gaining those skills.

422

: 00:30:31

is what transforms people because of the

kinds of things you have to put yourself

423

: 00:30:36

through in order to become proficient

in those practical, defensive skills.

424

: 00:30:42

One of the most important

things people learn is what's

425

: 00:30:46

called ukemi, or receiving body.

426

: 00:30:48

That's the skills needed to get down

in one piece when somebody throws you,

427

: 00:30:52

because realistically, thank heavens,

most people are not going to face a

428

: 00:30:59

critical physical assault in their

lives, but 100%, they're going to

429

: 00:31:03

trip and fall and being able to land

in one piece is incredibly useful.

430

: 00:31:11

I know that I've slipped on ice and

fallen, but just get up and dust off

431

: 00:31:16

because I fell, happily, correctly.

432

: 00:31:19

I know people that have fallen from

a height or been thrown from a horse

433

: 00:31:23

that were able to execute ukemi and

get up and dust off, so that is one

434

: 00:31:29

of the most important things that you

can learn how to do, but we've spoken

435

: 00:31:33

about some of the not so obvious

outcomes mentally and emotionally.

436

: 00:31:38

I would also say that in terms of jujitsu,

when you are training in contact with

437

: 00:31:45

another person, there's a high degree

of sensitivity that has to be developed

438

: 00:31:50

and there also has to be considerable

consideration for the other person.

439

: 00:31:55

In most punching and kicking arts,

you're not actually striking into

440

: 00:32:01

somebody's body, if you're wearing

protective equipment and things like that.

441

: 00:32:06

People can spar with contact, but a

lot of times, you're not really putting

442

: 00:32:10

serious power into somebody else.

443

: 00:32:12

In practicing jujutsu, though, you're

practicing the actual technique that is,

444

: 00:32:18

in some cases, designed to dislocate a

joint or break something serious, and

445

: 00:32:23

the way that you practice safely is to

be sensitive to what you're doing and

446

: 00:32:27

considerate of the other person and

clearly aware of what you're doing and

447

: 00:32:33

what the potential outcomes would be if

you mess it up, so it's a form of intimacy

448

: 00:32:40

in a sense that you are dependent on the

other person, to a large degree, for your

449

: 00:32:45

own safety, because you're doing things

in establishing the scenario, if you

450

: 00:32:50

will, of where that technique would occur.

451

: 00:32:53

You are, as the quote unquote attacker,

you're putting yourself in a vulnerable

452

: 00:32:58

position, and purely for the sake of

your partner being able to train, and

453

: 00:33:04

that builds a camaraderie, and a close

relationship that is different than

454

: 00:33:10

what's developed in a lot of other

kind of physical activities and sports.

455

: 00:33:16

Joshua: That's what makes your dojo,

that makes what your career has been,

456

: 00:33:20

completely different from what other

people have had even on the show.

457

: 00:33:24

I can think of the mental, the medical

benefits of people on the show, even

458

: 00:33:28

small business centers around where

you are, Robert, that promote that

459

: 00:33:32

and help that, and I think you're

doing all those awesome things.

460

: 00:33:35

I'm going to give you the

last few minutes here, Robert.

461

: 00:33:37

I would love for you to talk about where

people can reach out if they're interested

462

: 00:33:40

in checking out the dojo, especially

if they live in the south central PA

463

: 00:33:43

area, or maybe they just want to connect

with you, get some more of this awesome

464

: 00:33:47

insight that you provided today and they

have some questions about some of the

465

: 00:33:51

techniques that you have discussed today.

466

: 00:33:53

Can you give us some information

of how we would be able to reach

467

: 00:33:56

out to you, and I'll give you

the last few minutes to do that.

468

: 00:33:59

Robert: Okay.

469

: 00:33:59

Well, the easiest way is

through the dojo website.

470

: 00:34:03

It's ittendojo.org, and there is a

contact form right on the homepage.

471

: 00:34:12

That's the easiest way

to get in touch with me.

472

: 00:34:14

My email addresses are listed

on the website as well.

473

: 00:34:18

There is a Facebook page, there's

Instagram accounts, there's Twitter.

474

: 00:34:22

We try to reach out across

multiple avenues of social media.

475

: 00:34:26

Just googling Itten Dojo is going

to find all kinds of references

476

: 00:34:32

to us right off the bat.

477

: 00:34:34

Joshua: I think that that is so

important to be able to find that

478

: 00:34:38

connection, that team, that group

of people that are disciplined.

479

: 00:34:41

They want to work on that discipline, and

I have to comment on the fact, Robert,

480

: 00:34:46

that you're doing something that I've had

many different types of fitness people.

481

: 00:34:51

We talked about Noah before the show

and Noah's been on episode number

482

: 00:34:54

six for those that are interested in

checking out another fitness owner,

483

: 00:34:58

but yours is not just about fitness.

484

: 00:35:01

It's about growing educationally, mentally

with discipline along with the physical

485

: 00:35:06

benefits that go with it, and I feel

like for that reason, you definitely

486

: 00:35:10

are the wise sage, if I were to give you

a nickname as it comes to that, I feel

487

: 00:35:14

like I've learned so much today just from

hearing this and imparting some of it, and

488

: 00:35:18

you dispelled a lot of different things

that I've had about some misconceptions,

489

: 00:35:23

overall, about how this all works and

how we can become better in those sort

490

: 00:35:27

of things, and for all those reasons

alone, Robert, I want to thank you so

491

: 00:35:31

much for being on Speaking From The Heart.

492

: 00:35:33

Thank you for sharing

your heart with us today.

493

: 00:35:35

It was really a privilege to have this

great conversation and congratulations

494

: 00:35:39

on all the stuff that you've done

throughout your life and continue to do.

495

: 00:35:42

It's incredible work.

496

: 00:35:44

Robert: Well, thank you very much, and

if I have just one last word, I would

497

: 00:35:47

dispel another fear that people have.

498

: 00:35:51

The membership of the dojo

is incredibly diverse.

499

: 00:35:54

It's everywhere from mid

teens to mid seventies.

500

: 00:35:59

Many people that have never done

anything athletic in their lives,

501

: 00:36:03

including women that have never done

sports or anything else, the dojo

502

: 00:36:08

is a very welcoming environment.

503

: 00:36:09

It's surprisingly so to many people.

504

: 00:36:12

I've heard multiple people after

they started to train say, "I can't

505

: 00:36:15

believe how friendly everybody is

and how much fun this is and how

506

: 00:36:19

welcoming.", but I mentioned earlier

that martial arts are not for everyone

507

: 00:36:23

in the sense that some people just

don't care for it, but they are for

508

: 00:36:28

everyone, anybody can take advantage

of martial arts training, and the only

509

: 00:36:33

real qualification you need to get to

be a black belt is pure stubbornness

510

: 00:36:40

Joshua: There.

511

: 00:36:41

That's a line to end with: be stubborn and

you'll be able to grow in many different

512

: 00:36:45

ways, and even with people that are

like minded and in the environment that

513

: 00:36:49

is open and friendly, so I love that.

514

: 00:36:51

Thanks again, Robert, really

appreciate you having on the show.

515

: 00:36:54

Robert: Thank you, Joshua.

516

: 00:36:56

Joshua: I want to thank Robert again

for the opportunity to interview him,

517

: 00:37:00

and I encourage anybody that's in

the Mechanicsburg area to check out

518

: 00:37:03

Itten Dojo, because it is certainly an

experience unlike any other, and I had

519

: 00:37:07

told Robert even afterwards that I would

be interested in interacting in one of his

520

: 00:37:11

classes that would allow visitors to be

able to participate and see what this is

521

: 00:37:16

all about, but I really am left with this

big overarching question to start out.

522

: 00:37:22

Who motivates you and

what you have become?

523

: 00:37:27

Robert and I have certainly some

interesting interplays between our federal

524

: 00:37:31

and state civil service careers, whether

it's really related or not is a whole

525

: 00:37:37

other discussion in itself, but really

what I find interesting about what he's

526

: 00:37:41

been able to do is that he's taken his

40 plus years, while doing the dojo,

527

: 00:37:46

and has been helping others through a

variety of different instructors, let

528

: 00:37:49

alone senseis for that matter, to be

able to provide a different array of best

529

: 00:37:54

recommendations and best practices to the

students that go through that program.

530

: 00:38:00

All kinds of different types of

swordsmanship, in itself, is something

531

: 00:38:04

that you normally don't think about

in South Central Pennsylvania, let

532

: 00:38:07

alone maybe even in the cultural

sense of what we've been able to

533

: 00:38:10

fantasize about, even in movies,

television, and other sort of mediums.

534

: 00:38:15

Yes, I mentioned earlier, in the beginning

of this episode, about The Karate Kid.

535

: 00:38:20

Mr.

536

: 00:38:21

Miyagi, and even Daniel san for that

matter, have been always inspirations for

537

: 00:38:25

me, and even into the recent adaptation

of Cobra Kai, that was featured originally

538

: 00:38:30

on YouTube, and then was premiered

onto Netflix, but, it isn't what we

539

: 00:38:36

are talking about here today, and by

all means, I don't think I want to give

540

: 00:38:40

any disrespect to the fact that Mr.

541

: 00:38:42

Wolfe, let alone his team, have provided

a team oriented atmosphere that creates

542

: 00:38:48

self discipline, self acknowledgement,

but focus, because when we produce that

543

: 00:38:54

focus, whether we connect it with all

the pieces of our separate lives into one

544

: 00:39:00

atmosphere where we discipline ourselves

to stay on track, especially with handling

545

: 00:39:05

a weapon that can cause severe injuries,

it can create such a big difference in

546

: 00:39:11

life or death, and I certainly don't

want to be on the receiving end of

547

: 00:39:14

somebody that was not paying attention

and was carelessly swinging their

548

: 00:39:18

sword around, but I think that we have

that happen to us every single day.

549

: 00:39:24

No, we're not carrying swords, and we're

not usually carrying weapons for that

550

: 00:39:28

matter, which unfortunately has become

such an epidemic in America and parts of

551

: 00:39:33

the overall world, but I think that we

need to start to take a big step back and

552

: 00:39:38

start thinking about what are the things

that actually make us swing our swords.

553

: 00:39:43

Usually we're swinging words around,

whether we are on social media, whether

554

: 00:39:47

we're face to face with someone that

has aggravated us, or we're just

555

: 00:39:51

overly frustrated and we just want

to get something out of our minds,

556

: 00:39:55

but is that really being focused?

557

: 00:39:57

Is that really being disciplined,

and as a matter of fact, is that

558

: 00:40:01

really a good technique to be using,

especially when you're trying to work

559

: 00:40:04

through all kinds of different issues?

560

: 00:40:07

The art of personal development, which

I specialize in, is essentially the

561

: 00:40:11

growth that we can have through our

self worth by not only identifying what

562

: 00:40:16

we have inside of ourselves, but also

around us, and I think that Robert's dojo

563

: 00:40:21

essentially creates that opportunity in

group settings to do exactly what I do on

564

: 00:40:26

an individual, and sometimes team basis.

565

: 00:40:29

Having that peerless direct translation of

faith allows us to create techniques that

566

: 00:40:35

we're trying to create and grow in, which

is essentially who we're trying to look

567

: 00:40:40

at, which thus, goes back to my original

question, who are we looking up to,

568

: 00:40:46

but when we practice and we create that

interaction with others, especially with

569

: 00:40:50

what Robert provides in this atmosphere

that is seriously of vast interest, can

570

: 00:40:55

allow us to focus, grow, and gain strength

in ways in which we might not otherwise

571

: 00:41:01

gain strength in Western culture.

572

: 00:41:04

The Eastern culture, especially with

the Chinese, the Hindus, and all kinds

573

: 00:41:09

of other sects and religions, have

really focused on the fact that if we

574

: 00:41:14

have meditation and focus in our lives,

and we pray carefully about these

575

: 00:41:18

sort of instances, we can certainly

make a big difference in our lives.

576

: 00:41:24

Now, I'm not advocating for you today to

pick up Japanese swordsmanship and start

577

: 00:41:28

swinging a sword around, because that's

not what this is all about, and if you're

578

: 00:41:33

a first time visitor to the show, you will

always hear me say that it isn't about

579

: 00:41:37

stuffing religion down someone's throat,

or even advocating or forcing somebody

580

: 00:41:42

to do something that they don't want to

do or they feel quite uncomfortable with.

581

: 00:41:47

I've had that happen to me time and time

again in my life, and I certainly would

582

: 00:41:50

not want that to happen to somebody else,

but if we think about the application

583

: 00:41:55

of power, the power in which we might

focus through a sword or some other

584

: 00:42:00

blunt instrument, and we start swinging

it around, obviously, the reaction,

585

: 00:42:04

especially if we're around human beings,

or even friends or family members for that

586

: 00:42:08

matter, will certainly be quite concerned

about why we're swinging something around,

587

: 00:42:14

but isn't that what we're doing if we

use poor word choice, or if we don't

588

: 00:42:18

even consider the fact that other people

that are going through some of these

589

: 00:42:21

situations that we are struggling with,

might not feel quite comfortable being

590

: 00:42:26

able to discuss or even relate to us.

591

: 00:42:29

As a matter of fact, not only are we

hurting them, we're repelling them.

592

: 00:42:36

Mental and physical focus with

repetitiveness, by configuring not

593

: 00:42:40

only the organization, the sensitivity,

but also the focus that we provide,

594

: 00:42:45

can help us create those aspects of

our lives to be much better in the

595

: 00:42:50

overall grand scheme, but we have

to be aware of what we're doing.

596

: 00:42:55

If we're doing it carelessly and we're

not paying attention, we certainly

597

: 00:43:00

are going to hurt somebody, but I

think what makes this really important

598

: 00:43:03

is that we have to be practical.

599

: 00:43:06

We have to give ourselves that ability

to receive in the body and get it all

600

: 00:43:11

together by being able to understand

that every time that we make a

601

: 00:43:15

choice, it's either for or against.

602

: 00:43:19

I don't know if I have ever shared with

you the importance of why this is really

603

: 00:43:24

harsh in nature to not pay attention

to what is happening around you, but

604

: 00:43:30

I think back of the times in which I

was really struggling with my autism,

605

: 00:43:34

and no, I didn't have that idea of what

was going on in my life from a young

606

: 00:43:39

age, because as I mentioned in previous

episodes, my autism diagnosis came quite

607

: 00:43:44

late in life, but as I think about the

fact that when I ran out of classrooms,

608

: 00:43:49

acting out, and not appreciating what

teachers, and even the principal for

609

: 00:43:53

that matter, had to endure, I was using

a negative force that was not focused.

610

: 00:43:59

It was unbalanced.

611

: 00:44:00

It was creating disruptions not only

for myself, but for others around me.

612

: 00:44:06

It was later told to me that when

I ran out of classrooms sometimes,

613

: 00:44:09

I was actually smacking people, and

I don't even remember doing that.

614

: 00:44:14

Apparently I hurt a girl so badly

when I had one of my episodes,

615

: 00:44:18

that it really scared her, and

she never wanted to talk to me.

616

: 00:44:22

Now, later on in life, I was able to

make amends, and we actually had a good

617

: 00:44:26

friendship, and sometimes we have to

go through some of those trials and

618

: 00:44:30

those tribulations to really learn that

we need to be careful about what we're

619

: 00:44:35

saying, or even doing for that matter.

620

: 00:44:38

As a child, that's why discipline becomes

so important, and I'm not advocating that

621

: 00:44:43

you smack your child because that's not

something that I would really recommend.

622

: 00:44:48

Other people in the old days

would certainly say that, "Yes!

623

: 00:44:51

Corporal punishment is the

way to go.", but I'm not even

624

: 00:44:54

advocating for or against.

625

: 00:44:56

As a matter of fact, here at Speaking

From the Heart, I really want to

626

: 00:44:59

condone any sort of violence, because

violence in itself is not the answer,

627

: 00:45:04

and even Robert's discipline, at

his dojo, is not about violence.

628

: 00:45:09

It's really providing a different

alternative to the overall world

629

: 00:45:12

that we live in, and how we start to

address that, just like how we start

630

: 00:45:16

to address a goal that we have in

mind, means actually being focused.

631

: 00:45:22

If you are unfocused, and you're

not quite sure how to best move

632

: 00:45:25

forward, maybe doing a different

type of activity, such as Japanese

633

: 00:45:30

swordsmanship, might be the way to go.

634

: 00:45:33

Now, maybe that dojo is not close to you,

and you might not have the resources or

635

: 00:45:38

the opportunity to participate in quite

an experience just like what Robert's dojo

636

: 00:45:44

does provide, but I think that it's not

just about what we are able to provide to

637

: 00:45:49

ourselves, and it's not just about what

other people provide to us, which I've

638

: 00:45:53

always advocated in previous episodes.

639

: 00:45:55

If we want to have that inward peace and

that focus to be able to become something

640

: 00:46:00

that we never thought possible, it does

take a lot of discipline, but it doesn't

641

: 00:46:05

mean that you have a license to hurt other

people like James Bond does in many of

642

: 00:46:10

the movies that have also been televised.

643

: 00:46:13

It doesn't mean that you have

to be the Cobra Kai and beat the

644

: 00:46:17

crap out of every single type of

person that stands in your way.

645

: 00:46:22

When you think about the fact that

when you are disciplined, you're

646

: 00:46:25

learning so much more about who you

are and what you want to become.

647

: 00:46:30

It also means that you have that

direct translation of faith into the

648

: 00:46:34

techniques that you want to create,

not just for yourself, but what you

649

: 00:46:39

will embody for the rest of your life.

650

: 00:46:42

One big thing about Robert's story

that we haven't even covered yet is

651

: 00:46:46

the fact that he served 40 years in

the military; more specifically, the U.

652

: 00:46:51

S.

653

: 00:46:51

Navy.

654

: 00:46:53

I think that experience certainly

translates into the bigger opportunities

655

: 00:46:57

that we could all have, because if

we live a disciplined life, even if

656

: 00:47:02

it's not with the United States Navy,

or maybe it's with some other type

657

: 00:47:06

of organization in which it helps us

to build our character and build the

658

: 00:47:10

relationships and all the opportunities

that we have for who we are as a person,

659

: 00:47:14

individually, I think that can make

such a big difference, not just in the

660

: 00:47:19

ways in which we swing our swords, let

alone swing our experience and our words

661

: 00:47:24

around, but helps us to stay organized,

makes us sensitive to what other people

662

: 00:47:29

have to say, and remain focused on

the overall goal or mission that we're

663

: 00:47:35

setting out to do, so don't go through

the same notions as everybody else.

664

: 00:47:40

Don't swing your swords around thinking

that you're going to make a big difference

665

: 00:47:44

by threatening others with force.

666

: 00:47:47

You have to be aware of what you're doing.

667

: 00:47:49

Not only does it help you create that

opportunity for yourself, not only

668

: 00:47:54

does it help you with getting best

recommendations or best practices,

669

: 00:47:59

but I think that leading that sort of

life where you can meditate and focus

670

: 00:48:03

on what the bigger picture is can

help motivate you on not just what you

671

: 00:48:08

should become, but also help you create

that impact that you always wanted to

672

: 00:48:13

make, and even with that sword that you

might be utilizing, just put it away.

673

: 00:48:21

Knowing the skill is more important

than actually using it, because even

674

: 00:48:25

as what Daniel san was taught by Mr.

675

: 00:48:27

Miyagi in The Karate Kid, it's not just

about what you are utilizing, but it's

676

: 00:48:34

about what you're learning that you

can pass along to others, and I think

677

: 00:48:39

learning is such a lifelong gift to give.

678

: 00:48:42

instead of just hurting others.

679

: 00:48:45

Pain is not the ultimate reward.

680

: 00:48:49

Pain does not exist in your

dojo, and neither should it

681

: 00:48:54

exist anywhere in this world.

682

: 00:48:58

Thanks for listening to episode

number 104 of Speaking from the

683

: 00:49:02

Heart, and I look forward to

hearing from your heart very soon.

684

: 00:49:07

Outro: Thanks for listening.

685

: 00:49:08

For more information about our podcast

and future shows, search for Speaking From

686

: 00:49:12

The Heart to subscribe and be notified

wherever you listen to your podcasts.

687

: 00:49:17

Visit us at www.yourspeakingvoice.biz

for more information about potential

688

: 00:49:23

services that can help you create

the best version of yourself.

689

: 00:49:28

See you next time.