Episode #116 - You Are The Star Of Your Own Story: An Interview With Stephany Ann

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Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

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determination all converge into

an amazing, heartfelt experience.

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This is Speaking From The Heart.

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Joshua: Welcome back to episode

number 116 of Speaking from the Heart.

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Today, we have Stephany Ann with

us, and Stephany is an extraordinary

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woman, an attorney, recipient of the

Governor's Award for Advocacy with

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Survivors of Domestic Violence, and

international best selling author who

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triumphed over narcissistic abuse.

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With two marriages to narcissists behind

her, she's harnessed the transformative

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power of the emotional freedom

technique to guide others on their

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path to healing and personal growth.

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Her transformation came when she

shifted from why me to for me,

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and I love that last part because

that's what this has been all about.

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It's really helping others to see why

they do things, but yet at the same

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token, why they do it for themselves.

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I've had many guests on this show that

have shared the perspective that Stephany

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has shared today, but not quite in the way

in which I was really riveted by not only

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the people that she's had in her life in

which she's had to have freedom from, but

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she goes into so much depth about a topic

that I think is overlooked, which I have

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to put this disclaimer out there for my

listeners that might be struggling with

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somebody that might be toxic, abusive,

or even narcissistic for that matter.

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No matter what happens, I want

you to know that there is always

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freedom, and you have to exercise

that freedom by asking for help.

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That is the first step, and there's many

local domestic abuse clinics, and even

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places where you can go to be safe, even

if you have children for that matter,

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to be able to know that you can escape

from that overall persecution that you

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might be feeling, because let's face it,

Stephany's story, hands down, isn't just

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about that freedom, isn't about reclaiming

what's ahead of you, but also knowing that

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there is always hope, that there's always

an opportunity for you to be the star

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of your own story, if you're willing to

take advantage of it, one step at a time.

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But with that, let's go to the episode.

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All right, we're here with Stephany Ann.

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Stephany, thanks for sharing

your heart with us today.

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Stephany: Hey, thank you

so much for having me.

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Joshua: Yeah, thank you so much, and

I'm really excited to be interviewing

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you for a variety of reasons, because

as the audience already heard a little

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bit about your background and what you

are all about, and I really want to

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jump into the age old question because I

actually had this as an aspiration myself

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growing up is that you're an attorney.

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Now, I never made it to be an attorney.

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I took the LSATs and I was saying to

myself, "Nope, I don't feel like I can do

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this.", so, question one is, what made you

want to be an attorney, and then number

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two, maybe you can tell us a little bit

about what kind of attorney you are?

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Stephany: What's funny is I actually

never wanted to be an attorney either.

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Going to law school

was an advanced degree.

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My path was the state department,

working for the embassy, becoming an

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ambassador and living a life of travel

and diplomacy, so that was my route,

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but when I was an undergrad, I started

working at the prosecutor's office and

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that's actually where I became a domestic

violence advocate, and so, kind of in

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the back of my head, I was like, "Okay.

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I could do prosecution work, or I could go

on to the state department in law school."

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I actually studied international law

and trial law, and again, my path was

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towards the state department until I

found out my first husband, the covert

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narcissist, was having a bunch of

affairs and he gave me the choice to

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give up my career, and have children

and have a family, or he was leaving.

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Joshua: Wow, and it's funny when you

said that you had the opportunity

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to work for the state department

or actually go down that path-

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Stephany: I did.

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Yeah.

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Joshua: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I actually worked for the department

of justice when I did my last

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internship before graduating with my

bachelor's, so it's ironic a little

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bit with how we both have somewhat of

a similar career when it comes to that.

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You just did it.

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I just didn't, and that's okay, but-

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Stephany: Yeah.

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Joshua: When you're talking

about your first marriage.

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I mean, I'm assuming and I'm not married,

and my audience knows this already.

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I haven't been able to find the one in

my life and that's okay because I think

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we all have that timing in our lives,

but I often ask myself, "Well, when

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people get married and they go through

these relationships", which I've had

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plenty of clients that have gone through

certain similar circumstances as you.

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I have seen where they have either had

the choice of wanting to work through

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it, or they realized that they need

to have a complete new start, so I

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wonder if you could just tell a little

bit about your story of your first

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marriage and how it got to be where

you found out that he was a narcissist

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and he was hurting you and abusing you.

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Stephany: Yeah.

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Well, I didn't know he was a narcissist

for a really, really, really long time.

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It's just his behaviors changed, and so,

we got married right before I went to law

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school, and when you're single, and you

have no children, it is so easy to feed

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into the narcissist need for excessive

supply, so if I can just define a few

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terms here, so if you remember back from

Greek mythology, Narcissus was a man

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who fell in love with his reflection,

and so to be considered a narcissist,

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you have to meet the 5 of the 9 traits,

and so 1 of the 1st traits is you have

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this grandiose sense of self importance,

a preoccupation with fantasies of

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unlimited power, success, wealth, beauty,

whatever that is, narcissists have this

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belief that, one is special and only

could be understood by special people.

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They have this need for excessive

admiration and adoration, a

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sense of entitlement, and you

know, they're very arrogant.

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They have this very arrogant, haughty

behavior, but the thing is that they lack

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empathy, and they will exploit you to

get whatever they want, and for someone

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to be considered a true narcissist, they

have to meet at least five of these nine

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traits, and so it is very difficult

in the beginning of a relationship to

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even know you're with a narcissist,

and to even be thinking about that.

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Who's thinking about this?

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20 years ago, I wasn't

thinking about that.

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It wasn't even in my radar.

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My background was in domestic violence, so

I spent several years at the prosecutor's

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office as a domestic violence advocate,

and I actually had won the governor's

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award for my work with victims and

survivors of domestic violence, and

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so now here I am in this marriage.

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Something is off, it's not normal,

it's not typical, but it also

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doesn't fit the definition of

traditional domestic violence the

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way it was defined 20, 30 years ago.

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20, 30 years ago, it was really

just focused on physical violence,

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or you had so many judges and

prosecutors say, "Well, there's no

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domestic violence in my county."

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Okay, but we never really talked

about the psychological and emotional

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abuse, and so for me, when I went off

to law school, I was not able to give

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him all the attention that he wanted,

all the admiration, the adoration.

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Now, I had to shift my focus to my

studies, and for someone who took the

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LSAT and thought about going to law

school, law school is very challenging.

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It's time consuming.

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It became my entire life, and he even told

me at one point, he's like, "I don't want

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to hear you talk about the law anymore.

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I'm not interested.

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Go find study people."

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Joshua: Wow.

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Stephany: So it's like he shut me

out and then he looked outside for

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his source of supply because he

still needed all this admiration.

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He needed someone to worship him.

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He needed someone to fawn all over him,

and so it was during my last year of

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law school, when I found out that he

was having all these emotional affairs

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and maybe physical affairs, I don't

know the whole extent, but for me, and

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I think for many people at the time,

we would just label that as cheating.

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"Well, they're just a cheater."

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I never hear people say, "It's abuse.",

and so you have cheating over here

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on one side, and abuse over here.

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"Well, they're just a cheater."

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"They always cheat."

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"He is cheater."

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No, that's psychological and emotional

abuse, and so it took me many years, and

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even after our divorce for me actually

to recondition my brain to be like, "Oh.

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No, Stephany.

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That was psychological

and emotional abuse.

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Cheating is abuse and cheating

is what a lot of narcissists do."

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Joshua: I'm curious.

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What was one of the first

signs that you realized that

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he was actually a narcissist?

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Was there something that really stood

out after a while, especially during

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that first marriage, and I only reason

I ask you this is maybe my listeners are

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actually in a relationship, and they don't

really realize that there's these tall

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tale signs, so I'm wondering if for you,

maybe you have some insight as to what

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you saw in yours and maybe you have some

general warning signs that you can give

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to somebody that is listening to this,

that is going through such a relationship.

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Stephany: Yeah, and

actually it will all unfold.

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I will explain the cycle

of narcissistic abuse-

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Joshua: Perfect!

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Stephany: And so the cycle

of narcissistic abuse.

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You have the first cycle is the

idolization phase, then you have

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the devaluation, love bonding phase,

and then you have the discard.

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In the beginning of a relationship

with a narcissist, it is wonderful.

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It is like the most perfect

relationship you could ever ask for.

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They put you on this pedestal,

and who doesn't want that?

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Who doesn't want all this

admiration for themselves?

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They almost worship you and praise

you and you can do no wrong.

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They love everything about you.

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You will hear phrases like,

"Oh, we are soulmates."

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"I manifested you."

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"We are destined to be

together.", and they mirror you.

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They mirror your values.

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You essentially fall in love with

yourself, and you don't realize that all

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of this is going on, so I always tell

people, first red flag, if it's too good

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to be true, it probably is too good to

be true, and so for me with both my ex

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husbands, they put me on this pedestal

and they loved everything about me.

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They wanted to talk to me all the time.

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Who doesn't love a guy who

opens up and talks all the time?

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It's like you've found

this perfect person.

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They want to hear your stories.

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They want you to talk.

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They want to hear about your adventures.

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They want to know what your struggles

are, and they're the best listeners

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and they make you feel so comfortable

that you start opening up and you start

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pouring your heart out to these people,

and mind you, this might just be in the

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first month and you have fallen in love.

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This is how quickly it happens because

it becomes very intense, very quick,

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and it's almost like you are under this

spell, so that's the idolization phase.

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Once they have you hooked, and some

of these relationships move really

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quickly, like my second husband, we met

and got married within the same year.

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Joshua: Wow, that's

really quick, actually.

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Yeah.

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Stephany: It's very quick, but

some people, it's within a month.

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It's within two months.

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My second husband, I was older.

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I had already been married

once, and it was like, "Okay,

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well, I'm in love with you.

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I mean, you have just mirrored me."

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I didn't know that at the time, so once

they have you hooked, then the mask

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starts to come off, and then this is

where in the devaluation phase, this is

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where they start manipulating you, and

this is where all the gaslighting comes

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in, and for listeners who don't know,

truly understand what gaslighting is,

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gaslighting is when you manipulate another

person into doubting their perceptions,

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experiences, or understanding of events.

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It is a form of emotional abuse.

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It is a highly calculated

form of manipulation, and it

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involves destabilizing you,

as an individual, over time.

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It is coercive control, and

why narcissists use gaslighting

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is because it helps them avoid

any blame or responsibility

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for their behaviors or actions.

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They play on your insecurities

and they attack your self esteem.

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Now remember, in the first stage, you have

just told them all of your insecurities.

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Joshua: Mmhmm.

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Stephany: My second husband knew that my

first husband cheated on me for 14 years.

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He knew I had issues with women and he

would use that, so during the devaluation,

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when he's gaslighting, he would say

stuff; they call it triangulation.

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He would say stuff like, "Oh,

I just went to the store and

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this really hot woman was there.

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All these girls were there and

they're having a party, and

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they invited me to come over.

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I'm kind of thinking about

going over to this party.

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I don't know.

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Should I go to the party?

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Should I not?"

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Who does that?

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Joshua: Yeah, right?

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Who wants to go through and be like-

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Stephany: Who does that!?

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Joshua: Yeah.

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Who wants to come to the party?

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Anybody?

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Anybody?

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Like raising your hands?

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Yeah, of course I'm going to go because I

have this sort of intuition that I should,

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because you're putting this in my mind.

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Yeah.

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Stephany: Right, and so he would start

to do stuff like that, so they take

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your insecurities, they take everything

that you were vulnerable and you

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opened up, and expose yourself to them.

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They take all that, and they try

to bring you down to their level,

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because here's one of the myths.

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When I was talking to you about

the traits, the narcissistic

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traits, you would think like,

"Wow, this person is so confident.

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This person is so secure in who they are.

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This person has a a very

secure ego and sense of self.

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No, it's actually the opposite.

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They are the most fragile people.

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They have the most fragile ego.

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They hate themselves, and so during

the devaluation phase, they want to

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bring you down to their level, and so,

they will start doing the stuff like

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what my ex-husband was doing, like the

triangulations, just all this gaslighting,

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all this manipulation, because again,

if you look at the overarching piece

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of narcissistic abuse, it is similar.

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It is the same with domestic violence.

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It is power and control.

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They manipulate and they use

gaslighting to control you.

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They want to control your reactions.

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If they get a reaction from you, whether

it's a negative reaction or a positive

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reaction, they have controlled you.

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Joshua: This is so much like manipulative

communication in a way, because I do

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public speaking coaching, and I know we

didn't really talk about that beforehand,

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Stephany, but I do a lot of that, and

a lot of it is about how do you use the

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power of the audience to your favor.

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What do you know about your audience?

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What do you think they're

trying to achieve?

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I work with a lot of people trying to

develop messaging that helps them so much

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with not only communicating that, but also

getting that positive outcome, but change

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the word positive with what I just said

to negative, and now we have narcissism,

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and I'm just blown away because we have

so much power that we utilize, and I

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don't even think for a second that I

don't think I would ever want to do that,

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and it's weird because I'm a male, and I

know that most males have that tendency

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too, because they're in a position of

power, most of them, but, thank God,

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society I feel is changing, and I think

that everybody, men, women, whatever

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you identify as has that opportunity.

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I have friends that are homosexual and I

think that they have awesome friendships

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and have awesome opportunities and

relationships to be able to do just

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as much, so when I hear all this, I'm

thinking, "How'd you get through this?

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How does somebody actually get

through this to get to the other

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side, especially after two marriages?"

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I'm really curious.

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Stephany: Yeah.

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Well, let's get to the third phase

of narcissistic abuse, so we were

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just talking about devaluation,

so they will gaslight you.

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They will manipulate you.

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They will do all this stuff, bring

you down, make you feel horrible,

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make you hate yourself, make you

feel like everything is your fault,

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and so then you focus all your

time on trying to fix yourself.

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Well, maybe if I go to therapy or maybe

if I do this or that, and they will make

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you try to feel like you are the one with

a disordered personality, because what

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you have here is all of this gaslighting,

all of this manipulation, and then you

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have this intermittent reinforcement

of they devalue you, and then they

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come back and they love bomb you.

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Now they're complimenting you.

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Now they've completely switched

personalities, and so you'll hear a lot

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of people say, "Well, my ex had this Dr.

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Jekyll, Mr.

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Hyde personality."

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They can switch back and forth, and

so it becomes very confusing; all

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this intermittent reinforcement, and

what all of this does is create this

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thing called cognitive dissonance,

and cognitive dissonance is just

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this big, giant fog of confusion.

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You don't know what is true, what is

not true, what is reality, what is not

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reality, and because of this intermittent

reinforcement, the good, the bad,

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the good, the bad, the good, the bad.

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It creates a trauma bond,

and a trauma bond is very

297

: 00:17:56

similar to Stockholm syndrome.

298

: 00:17:58

If you think about it, you have the

kidnapper, and you have the victim,

299

: 00:18:03

where they fall in love with each other.

300

: 00:18:05

It's not true love.

301

: 00:18:06

It's not actually love at all.

302

: 00:18:07

It's a trauma bond, and so a trauma

bond forms, and this is why so many

303

: 00:18:14

people find it very difficult and

very challenging to leave these

304

: 00:18:17

relationships, because of the trauma bond.

305

: 00:18:20

It's very similar to a drug

addiction, and I even had said that

306

: 00:18:25

multiple times in both my marriages.

307

: 00:18:27

"God, I feel like I'm addicted to you

and I don't know why.", and so if you

308

: 00:18:32

think about when people use drugs, the

first time they drugs, they get this

309

: 00:18:36

really high dopamine rush, and then

they use again, but every time they

310

: 00:18:41

use again, they never get to that first

high, but they keep using, thinking

311

: 00:18:46

that, "Well, if I use again, or maybe

if I use more, maybe I'll get that

312

: 00:18:51

first high again, that first rush."

313

: 00:18:53

Similarly,, with a trauma bond, with a

disordered personality like narcissism,

314

: 00:19:00

we know that they know how to love us.

315

: 00:19:02

We know that they know

how to treat us well.

316

: 00:19:04

We know that they know how to be kind

to us, because that's how they were in

317

: 00:19:09

the beginning, and so we hold on to that

when the times are bad and we say, "No.

318

: 00:19:16

We can change them.

319

: 00:19:17

We just got to push through and it will

be good again.", but similarly, to a drug

320

: 00:19:24

addict, every time you use, you never get

that first high, and in a narcissistic

321

: 00:19:30

relationship, every time you go through

the cycle, it gets worse and worse and

322

: 00:19:36

worse, until you have the final discard.

323

: 00:19:39

Discard is like you

discard your trash, right?

324

: 00:19:42

Joshua: Yeah.

325

: 00:19:42

Stephany: So they have either

used you up and you are no longer

326

: 00:19:47

exciting and interesting to them

and they have other supply and

327

: 00:19:50

they want to go get someone else.

328

: 00:19:52

They will discard you, or you find

worthiness within yourself and you leave.

329

: 00:19:58

Those are the only two ways that a

relationship with a narcissist ends.

330

: 00:20:04

Joshua: So, just so I have this

straight, both husbands that you had;

331

: 00:20:09

did they think that they could change

you and they thought that they would

332

: 00:20:13

be able to meet your expectations,

or was it the other way around?

333

: 00:20:16

Stephany: The opposite.

334

: 00:20:17

Joshua: The opposite-

335

: 00:20:18

Stephany: It is the opposite.

336

: 00:20:19

Many of us stay because, one, we start

to think that we are the issue, because

337

: 00:20:24

they will say, "We are the issue."

338

: 00:20:25

Well, my second husband will say,

"Well, you have all this unhealed

339

: 00:20:28

trauma from your first husband,

because of all the cheating.

340

: 00:20:30

I should be able to go to a

hot tub party with a bunch of

341

: 00:20:33

women and that should be okay.

342

: 00:20:34

You should be securing yourself with it."

343

: 00:20:39

Joshua: Wow.

344

: 00:20:40

Yeah.

345

: 00:20:40

Okay, so like they're kind of projecting

that, and you're like, "Oh yeah.

346

: 00:20:43

Absolutely.

347

: 00:20:44

That's fine.

348

: 00:20:44

You can go do whatever you want."

349

: 00:20:46

Stephany: No.

350

: 00:20:46

No.

351

: 00:20:47

We don't want them to go do that.

352

: 00:20:49

Joshua: Yeah, but we don't

want them to do that.

353

: 00:20:50

Yeah.

354

: 00:20:52

Wow.

355

: 00:20:52

Stephany: But you know, so then you

start thinking, "Well, if I go to

356

: 00:20:55

therapy and if I do this, and if I

change these things, if I change my

357

: 00:20:58

personality...", and so at the end of

a relationship with a narcissist, you

358

: 00:21:02

are the one who is actually changed.

359

: 00:21:05

Joshua: Wow.

360

: 00:21:05

Stephany: Because you have become

a different version of yourself.

361

: 00:21:09

It wasn't who you were in the

beginning, and so they don't change,

362

: 00:21:15

and that's a big takeaway is that

you can only work on yourself.

363

: 00:21:19

You cannot change another person.

364

: 00:21:21

They have to want to change for

themselves, and a lot of narcissists,

365

: 00:21:26

they're not willing to change, and

this is why, if you look at their

366

: 00:21:30

history, you'll see that they've jumped

from broken relationship to broken

367

: 00:21:34

relationship to broken relationship,

and why they quickly can cut you off,

368

: 00:21:39

and discard you, and move on to the

next relationship and have a very

369

: 00:21:43

serious, intense, another relationship

is because they feed on that fuel.

370

: 00:21:48

It fuels them.

371

: 00:21:49

It supplies them, and if they were to stop

and actually look within themselves; Oh.

372

: 00:21:57

It's destructive.

373

: 00:21:58

You can only live a double life, and

in fact, my first husband actually

374

: 00:22:02

committed suicide two months ago, because

it catches up to them, eventually, and

375

: 00:22:10

it's many layers and many layers and

many layers of protective self, and

376

: 00:22:15

I'm not a psychiatrist or psychologist.

377

: 00:22:18

I'm just speaking from my experience

and I can talk about the legal side

378

: 00:22:23

of dealing with a narcissist as well,

but it eventually catches up to them.

379

: 00:22:29

Joshua: Yeah.

380

: 00:22:30

I am processing all this, because

for me, I have had a lot of those

381

: 00:22:35

situations in my life where I feel

like I'm trying to just catch up to

382

: 00:22:39

whatever's happening, and maybe it's

not necessarily narcissism, but I'm

383

: 00:22:43

trying to emotionally appeal to somebody

else and make them feel that, "Oh.

384

: 00:22:48

Well, you are a million

dollars in my life.

385

: 00:22:50

Please accept me for who I am.", and I

feel in a way you're describing a lot of

386

: 00:22:56

my first 36 years of my life, which I'm

37 now, I definitely have learned and

387

: 00:23:01

grown and changed, and have definitely

helped others learn and grow and change

388

: 00:23:05

just as much as you have too, with what

you have been doing, and I think that is

389

: 00:23:10

so important lesson that we could easily

continue to be in those paths that we are

390

: 00:23:15

in, the kind of like your first husband,

and whether we decide to really choose

391

: 00:23:19

to accept to make those changes that

we need to make, or we end our lives, I

392

: 00:23:24

mean, it's a very, very tough, fine line

that my heart feels like it's almost

393

: 00:23:31

wanting to yearn a lot more towards you,

but like for this guy, like, come on.

394

: 00:23:35

There's got to be a way to get to the

other side and make you feel like you can

395

: 00:23:38

change what you always believed as that

pattern, that resonance inside of you.

396

: 00:23:43

I don't know.

397

: 00:23:44

This is such a fine line to walk on.

398

: 00:23:46

I feel challenged with what you just

said because of the techniques and

399

: 00:23:50

the ways in which we identify it, so

actually speaking of techniques, you

400

: 00:23:54

have something called the emotional

freedom technique that you have worked

401

: 00:23:58

on, and I'm wondering if you could share

a little bit of that with the audience.

402

: 00:24:01

Stephany: Yeah, so EFT is one of many

wonderful healing modalities out there,

403

: 00:24:08

and again, when you are coming out

of a relationship with a disordered

404

: 00:24:14

personality, they really say it is

like you have just left an occult and

405

: 00:24:22

you have been brainwashed, and this is

why so many people as well will say,

406

: 00:24:28

"Oh, well, time heals all wounds."

407

: 00:24:32

Not the wounds from being in a

relationship with a narcissist.

408

: 00:24:37

If I were to do nothing and just sit

here and pray and wait it out five, 10

409

: 00:24:43

years from now, I would still be stuck.

410

: 00:24:45

I would still be in the same

place, because time does not heal.

411

: 00:24:49

You actually have to do the hard work of

reconditioning, reprogramming, rewiring

412

: 00:24:55

your brain and your thought patterns, and

so, EFT, emotional freedom, techniques.

413

: 00:25:00

It's a tapping.

414

: 00:25:02

It's tapping, so it takes some Western

practices with some Eastern practices

415

: 00:25:06

and you tap on the meridian points of

the body, and you do several rounds.

416

: 00:25:11

The first round is really recognizing what

is coming up; what big, heavy emotion is

417

: 00:25:17

coming up, where you're feeling it in the

body, because our body holds onto trauma

418

: 00:25:23

and after being in relationships, Has been

a lot of trauma on you, and so you need to

419

: 00:25:30

feel where you're feeling that trauma, and

then sit with it, acknowledge it, and then

420

: 00:25:35

release it, and so the 1st round is really

acknowledging it and where you feel it.

421

: 00:25:41

The 2nd round is releasing, and then

I actually do a 3rd round where we tap

422

: 00:25:46

into the person we are becoming, and it's

just one of many powerful modalities out

423

: 00:25:53

there, and actually I found it in 2020.

424

: 00:25:56

2020 was such a confusing year, and

imagine that to the nth degree when you

425

: 00:26:03

are in a toxic relationship and the world

has shut down, because for me, my second

426

: 00:26:07

husband, we got married in December

: 2019

427

: 00:26:14

I hadn't even been with him for a year.

428

: 00:26:16

We're still getting to know each

other, and his mask came off when the

429

: 00:26:20

world shut down, and so it was very

confusing to know what is: 2020

430

: 00:26:26

What is just the craziness of

: 2020

431

: 00:26:30

behavior, and so, this again, was

why it was just very confusing,

432

: 00:26:34

but in 2020, I learned about EFT.

433

: 00:26:37

We had separated for several months

and I just needed something, and I

434

: 00:26:41

thought I was signing up to work with a

practitioner, but I actually signed up

435

: 00:26:45

to become a practitioner, and I love that

because the divine knows what we need

436

: 00:26:50

when we need it, and instead of me doing

five session with a practitioner, I did

437

: 00:26:54

hundreds of hours to become a certified

practitioner, but it just became my life.

438

: 00:27:00

I just spent so many hours, and

days, and weeks, and months, and now

439

: 00:27:03

years, working on healing myself and

reprogramming and rewiring my brain,

440

: 00:27:09

and so it's just a powerful modality to

rapidly heal from this type of trauma.

441

: 00:27:16

Joshua: It is, and it takes great

strength and great courage to be able

442

: 00:27:20

to move towards that, because it can

be oftentimes difficult, especially

443

: 00:27:25

if you're stuck in the emotions

of that, to be able to say, "Yes.

444

: 00:27:29

There's a path moving forward.",

and I've coached a lot of people,

445

: 00:27:32

even through my business, being able

to do that because it isn't just

446

: 00:27:36

necessarily, "Oh, here's a blueprint.

447

: 00:27:38

Good luck.", It is, "Wow.

448

: 00:27:40

There's a lot of emotion with this.

449

: 00:27:41

Let's process some of these emotions today

so that you can pave a way.", and I'm

450

: 00:27:46

not saying either that I'm a therapist,

and thank you for saying that too.

451

: 00:27:49

You are an attorney though, which is

actually interesting in itself, being

452

: 00:27:53

able to discuss those legality aspects of

it, but I think you are representing what

453

: 00:27:59

many people have gone through, especially

since the pandemic, and I've had plenty

454

: 00:28:04

of people find their calling here on

the show, and it's always interesting.

455

: 00:28:07

It gives me a warm, tingling sensation

every time to just hear about those

456

: 00:28:11

unique, captivating stories, and

yours is definitely up there when

457

: 00:28:15

it comes to, "I need to find my

strength.", and I love that so much.

458

: 00:28:20

Stephany, getting closer to the end of

her time, but I wanted to talk about the

459

: 00:28:23

fact that you're an author and you have

written some works that are part of some

460

: 00:28:29

larger works, and I'm wondering if you

could share a little bit of that for us

461

: 00:28:33

.

Stephany: Yeah, so I was asked to contribute a chapter on a book on

462

: 00:28:39

leadership qualities of a leader, and I

looked at it through the lens of being

463

: 00:28:45

in domestic violence and working with

women who have gone through abuse with

464

: 00:28:51

a narcissist, and I kind of just talk

about what I do and the encouragement,

465

: 00:28:57

the resilience, and, we have these

leaders; these great leaders, but a

466

: 00:29:02

lot of these great leaders have been

through hardships, have been through

467

: 00:29:07

traumas and what makes them so great

is that they've overcome all of that.

468

: 00:29:12

We have the resilience.

469

: 00:29:13

We have the tenacity.

470

: 00:29:15

We have the strength, and in the end, we

have what's called like post secondary

471

: 00:29:21

I can't even think of the word; post

secondary traumatic something, but it's

472

: 00:29:27

where we can take what we've been through

and we can empower others with it, and

473

: 00:29:31

so for me, it's sharing my story, and I

don't like to believe that we go through

474

: 00:29:36

all this trauma to keep it inside, and

one of the things too that I've learned

475

: 00:29:41

over the years, and even 20 years ago

when I was working in domestic violence

476

: 00:29:46

was that shame wants to keep us small.

477

: 00:29:50

Shame wants us to not share our stories,

and even the narcissist would say,

478

: 00:29:56

"No one is going to hear your story.

479

: 00:29:57

No one is going to believe you.

480

: 00:29:59

You are not going to amount to anything.

481

: 00:30:02

You are worthless.

482

: 00:30:04

No one is ever going to love you.

483

: 00:30:06

You might as well just stay with me and

just take my abuse.", and so what we

484

: 00:30:12

have to do, we have to have more people

coming out and sharing their stories

485

: 00:30:16

and talking about this, because then

there's light and shame can't handle the

486

: 00:30:21

light or the truth or vulnerability or

authenticity, and that's why I share my

487

: 00:30:27

story, and I encourage other people to

share their story too, and now as I've

488

: 00:30:30

begun to share my story, I get so many

emails all the time from people like,

489

: 00:30:34

"You just described my relationship.

490

: 00:30:37

You just described my father

when I was growing up.

491

: 00:30:39

You just described my mother

when I was growing up.

492

: 00:30:42

You've described my girlfriend.",

or people are like, "Wow, I haven't

493

: 00:30:46

thought about this relationship,

but 20 years ago, when I was in

494

: 00:30:49

college, he was a narcissist."

495

: 00:30:52

Let's start talking about it.

496

: 00:30:55

Joshua: It's always important to be

able to share it, right, and I think

497

: 00:30:59

that we have forums, like a podcast,

or we have a television, we have

498

: 00:31:03

documentaries, whatever medium it is,

and we often hear the one side of it.

499

: 00:31:07

We hear the both sides of it; might hear

three or four different perspectives.

500

: 00:31:11

It depends on who you have and what

kind of format, but I think hearing

501

: 00:31:14

it from somebody that has actually

gone through it is just the power

502

: 00:31:17

in itself, and I think that we often

undervalue it because we hear so many

503

: 00:31:23

times those stories and we're like, "Eh.

504

: 00:31:25

I still don't want to listen to that

pattern.", and I hear some of those

505

: 00:31:28

things from other people of, "Well, I

know what they're trying to say, and I

506

: 00:31:33

know that it's really important, but I

still don't want to listen to it.", but

507

: 00:31:36

it isn't until you actually go through

it that sometimes people then finally

508

: 00:31:39

start to understand and listen, but yet,

like you said, there's a lot of shame,

509

: 00:31:43

and shame should not be the part that

holds us back so much, and actually

510

: 00:31:47

that leads into my final question for

you, to wrap up, because I noticed this

511

: 00:31:51

in your bio that I read to everybody.

512

: 00:31:54

It says that your transformation

came when you shifted from the

513

: 00:31:57

"why me?", to the "for me."

514

: 00:32:01

Most times I ask people,

"What is your why?"

515

: 00:32:03

What is your for me, Stephany,

that you want to share with

516

: 00:32:07

everyone today as we wrap up?

517

: 00:32:09

Stephany: Yeah, well, my for me is that

the why me is when we are stuck in this

518

: 00:32:14

victim mentality, this victim state of

mind, this victim mindset, where all

519

: 00:32:19

this bad stuff is constantly happening

to us, and when you're in the victim

520

: 00:32:24

mindset, you can't see the lessons,

and if you can't see the lessons, you

521

: 00:32:28

don't know what to heal and what to

release, and if you don't learn the

522

: 00:32:33

lessons, you repeat the patterns.

523

: 00:32:35

When you shift to for me, now, you

become the star of your story, not the

524

: 00:32:44

victim, not the person on the sidelines

of your story, when you shift to for

525

: 00:32:48

me, you become the star of your story.

526

: 00:32:52

Then you can see the people in your life.

527

: 00:32:57

For me, for so long, when I was

stuck in the victim mindset, I

528

: 00:33:00

saw my two ex husbands as monsters

trying to destroy my life.

529

: 00:33:05

When I was able to change my perspective

and see them not as monsters, but as

530

: 00:33:09

teachers who were here to propel me

into my empowerment, but also to teach

531

: 00:33:16

me lessons, and from those lessons,

I gained a tear field, hard, valuable

532

: 00:33:26

nuggets of wisdom, and when you can

make that shift in your mindset, you

533

: 00:33:34

can see where you need more compassion.

534

: 00:33:36

You can actually forgive and

remember forgiveness is for us.

535

: 00:33:39

It is not for them.

536

: 00:33:40

You can forgive, you can release,

you can let go and you become

537

: 00:33:45

empowered, so that is the for me.

538

: 00:33:49

Joshua: It's so important to feel like

you can be empowered and I think that

539

: 00:33:53

we, as a society, sometimes lose that

perspective, because we have other

540

: 00:33:58

people telling us what we need to do,

what we need to do in a particular day,

541

: 00:34:02

what we need to do with our money, what

we need to do with our lives, what we

542

: 00:34:06

need to do, the list goes on and on on

that what to dos, but when you say it

543

: 00:34:11

that way, when you say it that, "It's

for us to be able to have that control.

544

: 00:34:16

We could be the stars of our own

show.", I think that is so true in

545

: 00:34:21

many aspects, not just the way in which

we can empower ourselves, but also

546

: 00:34:25

empower others, and I love that so much.

547

: 00:34:28

You know, I thought for a moment

during this interview that you were

548

: 00:34:32

going to tell me you were going to

sue me because of being an attorney.

549

: 00:34:34

Thank goodness you're not.

550

: 00:34:36

Instead, what I find is that you gave

me so many new perspectives on the

551

: 00:34:41

term narcissism and for all those

reasons, and I think for all the things

552

: 00:34:45

that you do to continue to carry this

conversation forward, which by the way,

553

: 00:34:50

congratulations on the Governor's Award

of Excellence for doing such work.

554

: 00:34:53

Stephany: Hey, thank you.

555

: 00:34:54

Joshua: I want to thank you,

Stephany, for being part of

556

: 00:34:57

Speaking From The Heart today.

557

: 00:34:58

It was really a privilege not only

to hear a good part of your story,

558

: 00:35:01

but also, to hear a good part of

you, because I think the good part

559

: 00:35:05

is what we need to hear, and I'm glad

that you're not carrying that shame.

560

: 00:35:09

I'm glad that you're empowering

others to do that, so thank you.

561

: 00:35:12

Stephany: Thank you.

562

: 00:35:14

Yes.

563

: 00:35:15

Joshua: Stephany's story is a reminder

that there's not only people in this

564

: 00:35:19

world that are narcissistic, not only

are there people that are abusers,

565

: 00:35:24

but there are also people that are

willing to take advantage of others,

566

: 00:35:27

regardless of what might be going on

in someone's life, in order to exploit

567

: 00:35:32

them for their finances, for their

social status, for whatever cultural

568

: 00:35:36

demands they might be able to achieve.

569

: 00:35:39

There are always going to be people that

are putting you down, striking you out,

570

: 00:35:44

crossing them off their list, but yet at

the same time, you have to realize that

571

: 00:35:49

there is always going to be justice at

the end of the day, whether it's going to

572

: 00:35:53

happen today, tomorrow, even a few months

from now, a few years from now, maybe not

573

: 00:35:58

even happening at all, but the real fact

of the matter is that advocacy is what

574

: 00:36:04

will bring this awareness of this topic,

not only to the forefront, but it will

575

: 00:36:08

also allow us to keep moving forward, to

be able to be diplomatic, to be able to

576

: 00:36:13

prosecute those individuals that should

be prosecuted for their crimes, but I have

577

: 00:36:19

to say, somebody that has been through

so many different things in their life,

578

: 00:36:23

but yet has become a champion of willing

to be able to survive, to be able to help

579

: 00:36:28

others, really defines the purpose of

why we need to speak from the heart; to

580

: 00:36:33

be able to communicate what is really on

our minds, our hearts for that matter.

581

: 00:36:38

The very essence of why we even started

this podcast in the first place, but

582

: 00:36:43

we have to realize that we can't feed

into this narcissism either, and I

583

: 00:36:47

love that today's story from Stephany

really exemplifies different areas of

584

: 00:36:51

life where we can not only take control

of that, but we have to be able to

585

: 00:36:55

learn the traits that define us, that

allow us to dedicate the time needed to

586

: 00:37:01

address these all important situations.

587

: 00:37:04

Which begs the question: What time are

you giving yourself to be able to learn

588

: 00:37:09

and grow in the ways in which you should

be avoiding these types of topics?

589

: 00:37:14

I know that's easier said than done.

590

: 00:37:16

We feel that there's a sense of comfort,

even if we're being abused, which is

591

: 00:37:20

a very sensitive subject in itself,

and I realize that might be something

592

: 00:37:24

of a triggering point for many of us,

but we have to learn that if we don't

593

: 00:37:29

say anything, if we keep on enabling

it, we're just as guilty as the

594

: 00:37:33

people that are continuing to push and

prosecute against these individuals.

595

: 00:37:39

We have to learn to be able to say

something, and say it with conviction,

596

: 00:37:44

which is why it's so hard for us to

really learn to understand why these

597

: 00:37:49

people do the things that they do.

598

: 00:37:52

What is the definition of perfect?

599

: 00:37:54

Can we do no wrong?

600

: 00:37:56

Are we destined to always

have to be together?

601

: 00:37:59

Should we maintain a relationship

even though you are abusing me?

602

: 00:38:04

This gaslighting phenomenon, which

I love that Stephany talked about

603

: 00:38:08

today, is really the emotional abuse.

604

: 00:38:11

It's destabilizing any type

of responsibility that anybody

605

: 00:38:15

has, and really points the

finger at the other person.

606

: 00:38:19

It's not my fault.

607

: 00:38:21

It's your fault for this happening

in the first place, and those types

608

: 00:38:25

of conversations are not only very

triggering, but they also corner

609

: 00:38:30

somebody, thinking that they have no

ability to be able to speak up, which

610

: 00:38:35

is why my voice in this ever changing

world, something that I even work on

611

: 00:38:40

with my clients at Your Speaking Voice

LLC, is truly important for them to feel

612

: 00:38:44

empowered, but to do it in a safe way.

613

: 00:38:48

Now, I don't claim to be any type of

domestic violence individual, or do

614

: 00:38:52

I claim that I want to help people

that are going through some of the

615

: 00:38:56

most toughest moments in their lives.

616

: 00:38:58

I think that's where social workers,

therapists, even psychiatrists for that

617

: 00:39:03

matter, are trained specifically be

able to coach these individuals through

618

: 00:39:07

some of the most painful moments they

might ever experience in their lives.

619

: 00:39:11

In my practice of coaching, I'm talking

about being able to find the words deep

620

: 00:39:16

inside of yourself to be able to speak

them, into existence, which sometimes

621

: 00:39:22

can be very fragile in themselves.

622

: 00:39:24

Being able to learn and understand

the importance of not only keeping

623

: 00:39:28

that momentum going, to be able to

keep growing, even though you have

624

: 00:39:33

all these different things that are

happening in your life, even those

625

: 00:39:36

that are narcissists in nature.

626

: 00:39:38

You have to understand that

gaslighting is not a joke.

627

: 00:39:43

It happens, and it happens way too often,

even in the social media atmosphere

628

: 00:39:49

that we live in, and then you have

to look at the other side of this.

629

: 00:39:55

The trauma bond that we often create,

which trauma in itself is something that

630

: 00:39:59

we've talked about in a few episodes

now, about the importance of recognizing

631

: 00:40:03

it, being able to push through it, to

work through what you might have as

632

: 00:40:08

an association with that connection,

because love bombing, especially when you

633

: 00:40:14

think that you really love somebody, and

you're blowing them out of the water, you

634

: 00:40:20

might not be doing it in the right way.

635

: 00:40:22

You might be doing it in a bad way.

636

: 00:40:25

Love bombing in itself

is a very negative term.

637

: 00:40:28

We have to understand that if we create

these relationships that are very toxic

638

: 00:40:33

in nature, and we're throwing people under

the bus, how are we ever going to have

639

: 00:40:38

discourse, or even cognitive dissonance,

to be able to separate ourselves from the

640

: 00:40:44

relationships that we should not be in?

641

: 00:40:47

We can't keep feeling this feeling

.Forever It's almost like having

642

: 00:40:51

that rush of drugs coming through

us This is why you have to heal from

643

: 00:40:57

the wounds that might be transpiring.

644

: 00:41:00

You have to find a way to find that

courage inside of you to be able to

645

: 00:41:05

keep working on yourself, and that, I

know, can be the toughest thing that

646

: 00:41:12

you will ever do in your entire life,

but trust me on this, from somebody

647

: 00:41:18

that has gone through so much trauma

myself, in a variety of different

648

: 00:41:22

ways, and have had so many people share

their awesome stories about how they've

649

: 00:41:26

worked through that, there is hope.

650

: 00:41:31

There is always hope.

651

: 00:41:35

Stephany talked about, being as an

author, about the different areas that

652

: 00:41:38

are involved with having these hard times,

working through and getting that strength,

653

: 00:41:43

despite having two individuals in her

life that have caused all these different

654

: 00:41:48

pains and emotions to keep finding

the strength to keep moving forward.

655

: 00:41:55

Shame, oftentimes, is the bigger precursor

to why we never decide to move forward.

656

: 00:42:04

Shame.

657

: 00:42:06

You know, I've heard shame so many

different times in so many different

658

: 00:42:11

ways, but even in this episode today, I am

reflecting on the fact that shame can have

659

: 00:42:18

so many different types of consequences.

660

: 00:42:21

As this episode comes out, this

happens a few weeks after we've

661

: 00:42:24

had so many different guests, and

even so many different experiences

662

: 00:42:27

in my own life, personally, that

have occurred through shame.

663

: 00:42:32

Shame, in itself, ridicules us, makes

us feel less of a person, push us down.

664

: 00:42:39

Shame really makes us feel like we're

worthless, and it pushes us down into

665

: 00:42:43

something that we never thought we could

be; the most negative version of ourself

666

: 00:42:49

that we could ever experience, but yet,

for some people, shame is all that they

667

: 00:42:56

have to hold on in order to survive, and

the weird thing about shame is that it

668

: 00:43:01

comes in so many different forms: the

financial, not having enough money, so

669

: 00:43:06

you feel shame knowing that you can't

afford certain things for your kids, your

670

: 00:43:10

significant other, or maybe even others in

your family that are trying to celebrate.

671

: 00:43:16

Let's look at the social side:

maybe you're not as inquisitive,

672

: 00:43:20

loquacious, even talented like

some of your counterparts, but yet,

673

: 00:43:26

you're held to a higher standard.

674

: 00:43:28

You're being disenfranchised.

675

: 00:43:30

You feel as if you're being pulled

down into something that you can

676

: 00:43:35

never escape, but yet, shame has

another weird component to it.

677

: 00:43:42

It's the patterns that we keep

repeating, reinforcing the fact

678

: 00:43:46

that shame is here to stay.

679

: 00:43:49

In other words, as we continue to have

the bad experiences, the negative thoughts

680

: 00:43:55

that surround us, we start to live in

a life in which we will never have any

681

: 00:44:00

escape and that the only people that we

think love us, and care about us, are

682

: 00:44:06

the very narcissists that actually don't.

683

: 00:44:09

They actually want to hear themselves

feel valued, but they are going

684

: 00:44:13

about it, not only in the wrong way,

but they're also treating others

685

: 00:44:18

like disgusting pieces of trash.

686

: 00:44:23

I can't tell you how many times in my

life I've had to escape shame, whether

687

: 00:44:28

that is by my own personal vendetta, or,

going against somebody that I knew was

688

: 00:44:34

creating such a bad impression about me.

689

: 00:44:37

Even if I was telling myself that

story, maybe not even based on facts,

690

: 00:44:42

I was learning, every step along the

way, of how important it is to keep

691

: 00:44:47

learning, and growing, and respecting

the patterns that are surrounding me.

692

: 00:44:53

As a matter of fact, that respect, I

thought I had to earn with every single

693

: 00:44:59

relationship that I ever entered,

but Stephany said something that will

694

: 00:45:04

forever change me, because of our

experience here on this show, and that

695

: 00:45:10

is to be the star of your own story.

696

: 00:45:15

You are the only one that has

that power to be able to do that.

697

: 00:45:19

You can receive so much help, so much

guidance, so many opportunities to be

698

: 00:45:24

an advocate, to be able to feed into

all kinds of different aspects of

699

: 00:45:29

your life, both positive and negative.

700

: 00:45:32

You can continue to wrestle with the

question of being perfect, figuring out

701

: 00:45:35

whether you are destined to be with that

person that abuses you, that gaslights

702

: 00:45:40

you, that throws love bombs, that creates

that trauma bond, maybe makes you have

703

: 00:45:45

that rush, almost as if you're taking

drugs, but I want you to know that all

704

: 00:45:53

of those things are just sensations.

705

: 00:45:55

You're feeling those five senses.

706

: 00:45:58

If you really are serious about taking

control of your life, not only should you

707

: 00:46:03

seek help, whether that is professional

or through a coach, but I'm telling

708

: 00:46:08

you, your value is worth so much more

than you might even imagine, even as you

709

: 00:46:14

listen to these words today, but you have

to learn that you are the star of your

710

: 00:46:19

story, and that the patterns that you

have been repeating do not need to be

711

: 00:46:24

repeated again, because let's face it.

712

: 00:46:28

You have the strength to move forward.

713

: 00:46:31

You have the courage to keep pressing

forward, and oh yes, you have the

714

: 00:46:37

opportunity, of all opportunities,

to change the course, whether

715

: 00:46:42

you think shame is in control

or not, to keep moving forward.

716

: 00:46:49

I want to end this episode by

saying, it's really important that

717

: 00:46:53

you get the help that you deserve.

718

: 00:46:55

I appreciate the time Stephany gave

today to share this perspective of

719

: 00:47:00

what she's been through, but if you

really do need help with all kinds of

720

: 00:47:04

domestic violence situations that you're

experiencing, or maybe you need help to

721

: 00:47:09

get out of a very bad situation, please,

no matter where you are in the world,

722

: 00:47:15

reach out to your local authorities.

723

: 00:47:18

Reach out to the people that really

care about you and tell them what's

724

: 00:47:22

really going on, but also know this.

725

: 00:47:27

You're the only one that can control

the responsibility that you have to

726

: 00:47:31

change what is happening around you,

and just know that there are people

727

: 00:47:37

that truly care and would never want

to see you gone from this earth.

728

: 00:47:43

You are the most important thing

that might matter to them, and

729

: 00:47:48

you didn't even realize it.

730

: 00:47:50

Make the call.

731

: 00:47:52

Save your life, and be somebody that

you never thought you could ever be.

732

: 00:47:58

Be the better person on the other side,

because people like you can then be on my

733

: 00:48:04

show to tell your story, and spread that

awareness, just as we have heard today.

734

: 00:48:11

Thanks for listening to episode

number 116 of Speaking From the

735

: 00:48:15

Heart, and I look forward to

hearing from your heart very soon.

736

: 00:48:20

Outro: Thanks for listening.

737

: 00:48:21

For more information about our podcast

and future shows, search for Speaking From

738

: 00:48:26

The Heart to subscribe and be notified

wherever you listen to your podcasts.

739

: 00:48:31

Visit us at www.yourspeakingvoice.biz

for more information about potential

740

: 00:48:37

services that can help you create

the best version of yourself.

741

: 00:48:41

See you next time.