Episode #12 (Part 1) - Self-Development...In Prison? An Interview With Kris Pool

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Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

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determination, all converge into an amazing, heartfelt experience.

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This is Speaking From The Heart.

Joshua: 00:00:11

Welcome to episode number 12 of Speaking From the Heart.

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This is a very special episode in which we're dividing into two parts, and

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today you are listening to part one.

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Our guest is Kris Pool, who is a 18 year veteran of Toastmasters and has

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earned the Distinguished Toastmaster award three times and is currently

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working on her fourth time to achieve.

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She belongs to three Toastmaster clubs in which she's actively involved in.

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She has been the 2023 conference chair for District 35, which includes

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Wisconsin and Upper Michigan.

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She has also been the social media coordinator, which she has been

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able to utilize specifically for Facebook, the district's activities.

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She's been a club coach.

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She has a personal goal that she had been working on to visit a club in each of

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the 50 United States by the end of June.

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Chris has been employed since September 2021 with the Wisconsin Department

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of Workforce Development as an employment and training specialist

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at the Sheboygan County Job Center.

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She's definitely putting her Toastmasters skills to work on a daily basis.

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She's been married for over 22 years with her husband Troy.

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She doesn't have any kids or pets, but that allows her to enjoy the

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vast hobbies that she has, which includes reading, cooking, eating, and

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vacationing in Gatlinsburg, Tennessee.

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Now, why this is two episodes is because when we set out to record, I never

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thought we would be going for over an hour about the various things that she

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has done, not only at her job, which has some great information to share, but also

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about her Toastmaster's experience we'll get into in part two of this interview.

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Today, we're going to focus specifically on the employment and how she's been

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able to take her skills to help benefit a wide reaching audience, not just

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of people that are from the common denominators of our society, but you

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might be just surprised by what she also interacts with on a daily basis.

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But with that, Let's start part one of our interview with Kris Pool.

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All right.

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We have Kris Pool with us today.

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Kris, thanks for sharing your heart with us.

Kris: 00:02:36

My pleasure.

Kris: 00:02:37

Joshua.

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I know that for a fact that being able to get a moment of yours is

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something of a little bit of a challenge because you are such an awesome lady,

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and full disclosure for our audience.

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I've known Chris for several years, through Toastmasters, which yet

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again, you get to hear a little bit more about that organization.

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Maybe after this episode, you will finally check out a Toastmasters club,

Joshua: 00:03:04

which I'll also put in the show notes how you access it, but Chris, enough

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about Toastmasters for a moment.

Kris: 00:03:11

Yes.

Joshua: 00:03:11

I know that you have been working on a lot of things over the past several

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years, and I just want you to tell us a little bit about what you've been doing

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in your life because the audience already knows a little bit about yourself, but

Joshua: 00:03:28

what is it specifically that you've been able to achieve maybe in the last five

Joshua: 00:03:32

years or so that you're really proud of?

Kris: 00:03:35

Oh, that's an interesting question.

Kris: 00:03:38

Probably my work has been the area that I have had the most

Kris: 00:03:43

growth, the most development, the most changes happening to me.

Kris: 00:03:49

I always say I spent four years in prison, and I was actually the warden's

Kris: 00:03:53

secretary for four years out at Kettle Moraine Correctional Institution.

Kris: 00:03:57

It's in Plymouth, Wisconsin.

Kris: 00:03:59

It is the country club of prisons in Wisconsin; apparently, that's

Kris: 00:04:03

the nickname from the inmates.

Kris: 00:04:05

Spent four years there and then I was released to the probation

Kris: 00:04:10

and parole office in Sheboygan, and I spent about six years there.

Kris: 00:04:15

Going from the institution to the probation parole office, I had a unique

Kris: 00:04:21

perspective of those individuals who are being sentenced from court coming

Kris: 00:04:26

in for probation, and those being released from the prison coming to our

Kris: 00:04:31

office for meeting with the agents.

Kris: 00:04:34

One of the issues I'm going say that I had working at the probation office, or for

Kris: 00:04:41

the Department of Corrections, I did not feel that my skills were fully utilized.

Kris: 00:04:48

I was the magician.

Kris: 00:04:50

I did everything.

Kris: 00:04:51

I get bored easily because I am a very quick, fast, efficient worker, and

Kris: 00:04:57

that means I get my work done and I will volunteer and "oh, I can do that.

Kris: 00:05:02

I can do that.

Kris: 00:05:03

I can do that," which is both good and bad, keeps me busy, takes some of the

Kris: 00:05:08

work off of the plate from all of our agents, but when I had the opportunity

Kris: 00:05:13

to move over to the Department of Workforce Development as an employment

Kris: 00:05:18

and training specialist, all those extra projects that I did, nobody knew

Kris: 00:05:24

how to do that, and I tried to train.

Kris: 00:05:27

I had directions written up.

Kris: 00:05:29

They were at a loss because I just did it, and I did it effortlessly,

Kris: 00:05:34

and now they had to start picking up the slack, which caused some problems.

Kris: 00:05:38

In hindsight, I probably should not have done as much as I did, but I needed

Kris: 00:05:43

to do that to keep myself occupied.

Kris: 00:05:48

When this opportunity for the employment and training specialist

Kris: 00:05:51

came up, it was just even a fluke.

Kris: 00:05:53

Maybe every couple of months I would look at our website, WISC ,wisc.jobs.

Kris: 00:06:00

That's the listing for our state of Wisconsin, all the employment positions,

Kris: 00:06:06

all the different divisions and departments within the state, and I

Kris: 00:06:10

just was playing around and I saw this opening and I do have a few different

Kris: 00:06:17

requirements when I'm looking for a job.

Kris: 00:06:20

I want something that I'm going to be challenged in, but not overly taxed.

Kris: 00:06:25

Driving the commute is one of my big issues, where I could either work and

Kris: 00:06:30

do some of the job remotely working from home, or it was a short commute time.

Kris: 00:06:36

I've got some health issues.

Kris: 00:06:38

The biggest one I have wrist issues.

Kris: 00:06:41

That's one of my biggest ones.

Kris: 00:06:43

I have a difficult time holding onto the steering wheel because it

Kris: 00:06:47

hurts my hand, my right hand to hold onto it, so having a shorter drive

Kris: 00:06:54

time is a big consideration for me.

Kris: 00:06:58

I also have issues where if it's more than about a 20 minute drive,

Kris: 00:07:02

I start to fall asleep regardless of how much I slept during the night.

Kris: 00:07:08

I get so tired.

Kris: 00:07:09

When I was working at the probation office, I would help cover down in our

Kris: 00:07:13

Scoville office frequently; that's about a 30 minute drive, and after 20 minutes

Kris: 00:07:18

I wanted to pull over and take a nap.

Kris: 00:07:21

I could not keep my eyes open.

Joshua: 00:07:24

Wow.

Kris: 00:07:24

Brought that one up to one of my many doctors and he put me

Kris: 00:07:28

on a pill for narcolepsy, actually-

Joshua: 00:07:30

Mm-hmm.

Kris: 00:07:31

And I still feel tired, but my eyes are not that droopy.

Kris: 00:07:37

They have to close type of tired, so I'm able to drive and stay awake.

Kris: 00:07:42

Even though I feel tired, I'm not as concerned that I will fall asleep

Kris: 00:07:47

at the wheel, so that part has been eliminated, which is very good.

Joshua: 00:07:51

I want to ask you a few questions about what you were doing

Joshua: 00:07:56

at the prison, because a lot of people have this association that when you

Joshua: 00:08:01

go to prison that your life is over.

Joshua: 00:08:04

You have no hope, you have no chance, and I think the conversation, especially

Joshua: 00:08:08

being myself a state employee over the last decade or so, I've heard a

Joshua: 00:08:13

lot of the conversation and the tone and the words being used changed

Joshua: 00:08:19

significantly as it relates to people being able to reenter the workforce.

Joshua: 00:08:24

You are essentially a employment training specialist with the

Joshua: 00:08:29

Sheboygan County Job Center.

Joshua: 00:08:31

For those that don't know, Kris is in Wisconsin, but Kris, when you were

Joshua: 00:08:37

working with those inmates, maybe indirectly or directly, did you see that

Joshua: 00:08:44

maybe none of them were going to be able to ever succeed, that they were just

Joshua: 00:08:48

going to be stuck in prison forever?

Joshua: 00:08:50

I mean, obviously, that's a obscene question for me because I know

Joshua: 00:08:54

that you've seen people do that.

Kris: 00:08:56

Sure.

Joshua: 00:08:56

But I'm curious, what have you identified as the most successful

Joshua: 00:09:03

people that leave that area of being in probation or being in the the jail system,

Joshua: 00:09:10

and what do you think have been some of the determining factors to do that?

Joshua: 00:09:14

Is there any insight you could give us?

Kris: 00:09:15

My personal opinion on this one: majority of the people who are in the

Kris: 00:09:21

prisons, they are not bad people; they are people who made bad choices, and

Kris: 00:09:26

those who are the repeat offenders, they are not making that conscious effort

Kris: 00:09:32

to make positive changes in their life.

Kris: 00:09:34

Sometimes I have seen individuals, they have come back on probation 4,

Kris: 00:09:39

5, 6, 7, 12 times, or go back into prison multiple times, and for them,

Kris: 00:09:46

at some point, there is something that "aha" moment of I need to start making

Kris: 00:09:52

changes in my life, whether it's now they have a child, they've finally

Kris: 00:09:57

grown up somebody that they loved, has passed away, something has happened for

Kris: 00:10:03

them to finally realize they are the ones who are in control of their life.

Kris: 00:10:08

They are the ones who have to make a positive change.

Kris: 00:10:13

For those who want to rehabilitate who want to make improvements, there

Kris: 00:10:18

are so many programs available in the correctional system for them.

Kris: 00:10:25

In Wisconsin, each of the different institutions and correctional facilities

Kris: 00:10:29

have different programs available.

Kris: 00:10:33

When you are sentenced to prison, you go to dodge, and that's kind of the intake

Kris: 00:10:38

prison, and you spend several weeks there.

Kris: 00:10:41

Health assessments, dental assessments, mental assessments,

Kris: 00:10:45

they talk about learning, education, jobs; the interests.

Kris: 00:10:50

What kind of programs do you need to be in?

Kris: 00:10:53

Are you a sex offender?

Kris: 00:10:54

Are you a drug abuser?

Kris: 00:10:56

You go through different programming, and then based on all of the

Kris: 00:11:02

information, which I've never been involved in all of that detail,

Kris: 00:11:06

but that's what I've taken from it.

Kris: 00:11:10

You are assigned then to a different institution.

Kris: 00:11:14

If you are interested in culinary arts and cooking, becoming a chef, then

Kris: 00:11:20

there's one specific institution that is their focus, and they prepare meals.

Kris: 00:11:27

They learn all the skills that are needed.

Kris: 00:11:29

There's one that has specifics for automotive and detailing

Kris: 00:11:34

and auto mechanic; wide variety of different options available.

Kris: 00:11:39

If you're looking to get your GED, all of the correctional institutions have

Kris: 00:11:44

schools where you can get your GED.

Kris: 00:11:47

Most of the prisons are paired up with a technical college program

Kris: 00:11:51

so that they can graduate with an associates degree in specific areas.

Joshua: 00:11:56

Hmm.

Kris: 00:11:57

I know at Kettle Moraine, every year we would have a job fair, so we would

Kris: 00:12:02

bring in 50 to 60 employers who are open to hiring those with a felony background.

Kris: 00:12:08

Employers get tax credits if they do hire those with a felony background

Kris: 00:12:13

and most people, it's probably the opposite of what they think.

Kris: 00:12:19

Those that have that felony background are the ones who normally will

Kris: 00:12:22

work harder because they want to prove themselves to that employer.

Kris: 00:12:26

They will go out of their way to make sure that they are on time or early.

Kris: 00:12:31

They put in the overtime, they've got the positive attitude

Kris: 00:12:34

because they want to succeed.

Kris: 00:12:38

I was instrumental in helping with our job fairs and I would do some

Kris: 00:12:43

one-on-one workshops and trainings.

Kris: 00:12:46

I would work with the individuals in developing their resumes, so they

Kris: 00:12:52

would hand write it out, and then we actually had remember one day, I was

Kris: 00:12:57

one of five individual staff members who would be helping to type up their

Kris: 00:13:01

resumes, and I had a line of about 20 guys wanting to work with me for their

Kris: 00:13:08

resume and everybody else had maybe one person in line, because I didn't just

Kris: 00:13:13

retype what they had written out as I'm going through, I remember one person

Kris: 00:13:20

he put on his resume, he dug holes.

Kris: 00:13:23

You can't just put, I dug holes on a resume that, that

Kris: 00:13:28

does not relate very well.

Joshua: 00:13:31

Yeah.

Kris: 00:13:31

I said, tell me a little bit more about this: did you

Kris: 00:13:33

work on a construction crew?

Kris: 00:13:35

Yes.

Kris: 00:13:35

Okay, did you use a shovel?

Kris: 00:13:37

Yes.

Kris: 00:13:38

Did you use a backhoe?

Kris: 00:13:39

Yes.

Kris: 00:13:40

Were you certified to use that backhoe?

Kris: 00:13:42

Well, of course you have to, otherwise, you're not allowed to use the backhoe,

Kris: 00:13:44

so it opened up a lot more discussion and we put together this wonderful,

Kris: 00:13:49

fantastic resume because I was asking those questions and pulling out

Kris: 00:13:54

answers, they dug holes, that's all that they could think that they did, but

Kris: 00:13:59

there's so much more involved in that.

Joshua: 00:14:02

I have to say that, for myself, especially working through the business, I

Joshua: 00:14:07

do resume writing and reviews and helping people to be able to expand themselves

Joshua: 00:14:13

as part of this, and it is exactly the same concept, Kris, that we have to not

Joshua: 00:14:19

just look at, well, yeah, I dug holes.

Joshua: 00:14:22

Well, what did you do with those holes?

Joshua: 00:14:24

What was involved with it?

Joshua: 00:14:25

Did you work with other people?

Joshua: 00:14:27

Did you actually achieve something as a result of it?

Joshua: 00:14:30

Was there a cost savings with that sort of digging of the hole?

Joshua: 00:14:34

Why was it a cost savings?

Joshua: 00:14:35

Those are the questions that we often have to flush out that some people

Joshua: 00:14:39

think, "yes, I did this specific responsibility," but because you are

Joshua: 00:14:45

working on what those accomplishments are, that really helps you to stand out.

Joshua: 00:14:50

I want to pivot back on something that you said about having those people come

Joshua: 00:14:57

to you, those 20 people, especially when you are working with a resume, or

Joshua: 00:15:02

even people that you are making that connection with, because for some people

Joshua: 00:15:07

that don't know, Kris, is a great hugger and I've been able to be privileged

Joshua: 00:15:12

to receive some of those hugs once or twice, but you have that contagious

Joshua: 00:15:17

emotion of connection with people that fantastic opportunity to bond with others.

Joshua: 00:15:24

When you are working with people, and you maybe don't even know who they are, and

Joshua: 00:15:29

you have this generation of thought of, "I want to make this person feel pretty

Joshua: 00:15:35

good today," and doesn't necessarily have to be a hug, but what goes through

Joshua: 00:15:39

your mind that makes you feel prompted to do something like that, because I

Joshua: 00:15:45

think that most people don't normally go up and think, "Yeah, I'm going to

Joshua: 00:15:48

make this person feel good today," and I'm not saying that's generative

Joshua: 00:15:52

of all the different types of people-

Kris: 00:15:54

Mm-hmm.

Joshua: 00:15:55

But, there are a special class of people that are doing

Joshua: 00:15:58

that, and what makes you do that?

Kris: 00:16:02

I think part of it, especially now in my role as an employment and training

Kris: 00:16:06

specialist, I get paid to help people build their resumes, but it's more than

Kris: 00:16:11

that, and it's just a part of who I am and I will react and kind of mirror the, not

Kris: 00:16:21

necessarily the attitude, but the actions of the individuals coming into our job

Kris: 00:16:28

center, and I don't make a connection with everyone, and it works out then that my

Kris: 00:16:34

coworkers can make the connection with those that I can't, but oftentimes it's

Kris: 00:16:39

a matter of listening to them and asking questions to draw out more information.

Kris: 00:16:47

We'll have individuals come in, I need a job.

Kris: 00:16:49

What type of job are you looking for?

Kris: 00:16:51

Anything, I just need a job.

Kris: 00:16:54

Anything encompasses a whole lot of stuff.

Kris: 00:16:56

Okay.

Kris: 00:16:57

I know that there's a dentist opening across the street.

Kris: 00:16:59

You want to apply for that?

Kris: 00:17:00

Well, I can't be a dentist.

Kris: 00:17:02

You just said you could do anything.

Kris: 00:17:04

Okay.

Kris: 00:17:04

I know there's an adjunct instructor position up here.

Kris: 00:17:07

Well, I can't be a teacher.

Kris: 00:17:09

Okay.

Kris: 00:17:09

Let's narrow down what is your, anything that you can do or want to

Kris: 00:17:14

do, and once we start having that conversation, that dialogue, that

Kris: 00:17:20

opens up more of where I can try and gear them towards four specific jobs

Kris: 00:17:27

and then that helps to focus how we're going to build their resume as well.

Kris: 00:17:33

If it's somebody who wants to transition to something different, I

Kris: 00:17:37

have a different approach for them.

Kris: 00:17:38

If they're coming from the factory, they want to move into an office

Kris: 00:17:41

position, we have to approach their resume in a different way.

Kris: 00:17:46

I will have, I've got several people who come in, "I just was released today."

Kris: 00:17:52

Most people, when you hear that phrase, would not know what that actually means.

Kris: 00:17:57

That means it's a Tuesday, they just got released from prison today and their

Kris: 00:18:01

first stop was coming to the job center.

Kris: 00:18:04

That tells me they are the type of person they want to make positive

Kris: 00:18:09

changes in their life if they go from prison to the job center.

Kris: 00:18:13

Boom.

Kris: 00:18:14

Most times those are the ones that come in.

Kris: 00:18:17

I need to find a job.

Kris: 00:18:18

I need some help with housing.

Kris: 00:18:19

I do need to get on food share and healthcare.

Kris: 00:18:23

All right.

Kris: 00:18:24

When job is their number one priority because they need to have stable

Kris: 00:18:29

employment so that they can be comfortable with using these other services.

Kris: 00:18:34

Others have a different perspective: I need food share.

Kris: 00:18:37

I need healthcare.

Kris: 00:18:39

I need housing and rental assistance.

Kris: 00:18:42

I need a job, because for them, they need those basic needs satisfied

Kris: 00:18:47

before they can have the confidence to get a job and maintain a job.

Kris: 00:18:52

You approach everyone a little bit differently.

Kris: 00:18:56

I have one person, any kind of suggestion that I would offer to him,

Kris: 00:19:00

he would, just, almost, I felt like he was attacking me and from the first

Kris: 00:19:06

moment he walked in, I need help.

Kris: 00:19:08

I need unemployment.

Kris: 00:19:09

All right.

Kris: 00:19:10

We need, I'll be getting you the forms.

Kris: 00:19:12

This one, this one, this one.

Kris: 00:19:13

Do you have a current resume?

Kris: 00:19:15

No, I don't need a resume.

Kris: 00:19:17

Okay.

Kris: 00:19:17

Are you going to be looking for jobs?

Kris: 00:19:19

Well, yeah.

Kris: 00:19:20

Then do you have a resume?

Kris: 00:19:21

I told you I don't need a resume.

Kris: 00:19:23

Okay.

Kris: 00:19:24

Just from the response I back off then come to find out, yeah, he

Kris: 00:19:29

needs to build a resume, but he was convinced he had worked at one

Kris: 00:19:32

position or one company for 10 years.

Kris: 00:19:35

Any employer would see he had 10 years of experience at one

Kris: 00:19:38

company, they're gonna hire them.

Kris: 00:19:39

Boom.

Kris: 00:19:41

No, it's more than that, and it took him over a year and a half and three jobs

Kris: 00:19:45

that he did get, and he either walked out or he was let go within a week and

Kris: 00:19:49

a half, because it's more than just working for one company for 10 years.

Kris: 00:19:55

Attitude as a big part of it, wanting to learn, wanting to change

Kris: 00:20:00

because things are different.

Joshua: 00:20:02

What would you say to somebody then that would be having that attitude

Joshua: 00:20:09

or that mindset of, "I don't think that you are going to help me to where

Joshua: 00:20:15

I need to go," because I often come across that a lot, especially with

Joshua: 00:20:19

clients that I work with or try to work with, and they're simply not ready.

Joshua: 00:20:24

What is your approach, especially for even people coming from that background where

Joshua: 00:20:30

they were released, how do you address that type of, I don't want to say,

Joshua: 00:20:37

deficiency, because I think that it's just an understanding or having an awareness

Joshua: 00:20:41

and some people don't have that awareness.

Kris: 00:20:43

Mm-hmm.

Joshua: 00:20:44

How do you bring about that in a positive, professional sort of way?

Joshua: 00:20:49

What's the best tact if you can describe how you take that approach?

Kris: 00:20:53

Sure.

Kris: 00:20:54

Some of it is, the explanation of how you apply for jobs, how you

Kris: 00:21:01

interview, that process has changed over the last 10, 15, 20 years.

Kris: 00:21:07

It's not where you make one resume, you make a hundred copies, you send

Kris: 00:21:11

it all out, the exact same thing.

Kris: 00:21:14

You do need to customize that resume.

Kris: 00:21:15

That resume is that initial marketing tool pulls in that first employer say,

Kris: 00:21:22

Ooh, I need to bring that person in so I can meet them in person and get to

Kris: 00:21:26

know them so I can determine, yes, this is who I want to hire and work for me.

Kris: 00:21:31

Some of these individuals, they don't see that.

Kris: 00:21:34

They don't understand the importance of the resume or the importance of

Kris: 00:21:39

explaining what you have been able to do.

Kris: 00:21:42

The person who had worked at the same company for 10 years, this company

Kris: 00:21:47

has eight different divisions: , Well, what did you do there?

Kris: 00:21:51

It was pulling teeth to try and find out what department, what division he actually

Kris: 00:21:57

worked in, what different lines did he do, because he didn't think any of that

Kris: 00:22:01

was important, and after a while when he would come in, he was my kryptonite.

Kris: 00:22:09

The other, my coworkers, they would work with him instead, because they

Kris: 00:22:13

had a different relationship with him that they were able to somewhat

Kris: 00:22:19

connect with him than I could.

Kris: 00:22:23

I did have, I want to say my outbursts, one day with him as after

Kris: 00:22:27

about a year and my outburst, I was very quiet and calm, and I told

Kris: 00:22:34

him, I said, "I'm very worried."

Kris: 00:22:37

I said, "you continue to ask the same questions every single week when

Kris: 00:22:42

you come in here, and I'm giving the answers, all the coworkers are giving

Kris: 00:22:47

the same answers, but you're not remembering, you're not retaining.

Kris: 00:22:50

I don't know if it's because you don't want to remember this information because

Kris: 00:22:55

you have a certain thought process."

Kris: 00:22:59

I said, "I'm worried because I don't know how to help you anymore because

Kris: 00:23:04

I have given you all of the different suggestions, all the different ideas

Kris: 00:23:07

that have worked for other individuals, but because you seem to not want to

Kris: 00:23:13

take the ideas and suggestions, I don't know what to do anymore with

Kris: 00:23:18

you or how I can help you anymore."

Joshua: 00:23:22

It wasn't because you gave up on them or anything at all.

Joshua: 00:23:24

It definitely doesn't sound like that.

Joshua: 00:23:26

You and others have been working so hard to try to instill this in this person,

Joshua: 00:23:32

but they are just not ready to accept it.

Kris: 00:23:34

Yeah, and it was funny because a little bit after that, I had left for

Kris: 00:23:38

lunch, and my coworker came up to me after lunch and he said, you know, this person

Kris: 00:23:43

asked him what was wrong with me today.

Joshua: 00:23:48

Wow.

Joshua: 00:23:49

Wow.

Kris: 00:23:50

Oh my gosh, and all along and think, you know, because of the

Kris: 00:23:54

different questions that he kept asking, I wanted to ask him, "Can he read?

Kris: 00:24:00

Is he literate?", but I can't ask that one, and I did find out now in the

Kris: 00:24:05

last two months, he is dyslexic because he actually came in, asked me to help

Kris: 00:24:10

fill out a paper application form, because he kept coming over, well, what

Kris: 00:24:15

does it mean by, what does this mean?

Kris: 00:24:16

What does this mean?

Kris: 00:24:17

"Okay, did I fill out all these questions?," and he would miss different

Kris: 00:24:21

ones, or what should I be writing?

Kris: 00:24:23

Based on that, he is dyslexic, and because I found out later, he did finally

Kris: 00:24:30

apply for DVR, division of Vocational Rehabilitation, they help all individuals

Kris: 00:24:35

with so many different disabilities, and it's not just physical ones.

Kris: 00:24:40

If there's mental, there's diabetes, asthma, amputation,

Kris: 00:24:44

stroke, and so many different types of disabilities DVR works with.

Kris: 00:24:50

He did get that job that I helped him with that application.

Kris: 00:24:53

It's been about three or four weeks now.

Kris: 00:24:54

I'm very excited.

Kris: 00:24:55

I haven't heard that he's come back at all, but one of the questions I

Kris: 00:24:59

had asked him when we were filling out this application, " What does the

Kris: 00:25:03

company do?", because his focus was, it is a five minute walk from his house.

Kris: 00:25:09

I love that.

Kris: 00:25:09

What do they do?

Kris: 00:25:11

Well, I think they make socks or something, I don't know if they're,

Kris: 00:25:15

if, if they're interest or then I said, have you done any research

Kris: 00:25:19

on the company, because that's one of the things we always promote.

Kris: 00:25:23

You need to research the company; is this a company that you want to work for?

Kris: 00:25:27

Do they make products or do they have the same values of what you believe in?

Kris: 00:25:32

What is their culture like?

Kris: 00:25:33

Are you going to be a fit with them?

Kris: 00:25:35

Are they going to be a fit for you?

Kris: 00:25:39

His response was, "well, if they're interested in me,

Kris: 00:25:42

they'll tell me what they do."

Joshua: 00:25:44

When you have somebody that says that, and they are saying, "yeah,

Joshua: 00:25:49

well, I know that I'm important and they're going to tell me what I want

Joshua: 00:25:53

because I'm the one in control."

Joshua: 00:25:55

How do you, how do you start to shift that mindset, because obviously we know

Joshua: 00:25:58

that going in with that sort of mindset is not going to help you get any money

Joshua: 00:26:03

from them, because that is not, that is in effect, changing the conversation

Joshua: 00:26:08

to, "I don't need a job from you.

Joshua: 00:26:11

I'm the one that you need to employ because I'm the one

Joshua: 00:26:14

that has the most worth."

Joshua: 00:26:16

I'm not saying that that's not a good mindset-

Kris: 00:26:19

Mm-hmm.

Joshua: 00:26:19

When it comes to certain jobs, but maybe I would say for a good 85, 90% of

Joshua: 00:26:24

jobs, it does not work that way especially when you're trying to convince, out of

Joshua: 00:26:30

a pool of applicants, that you are the standout candidate that they should hire.

Joshua: 00:26:36

How do you stop them from going down that path?

Kris: 00:26:40

It depends on that individual, so for this person, I knew there

Kris: 00:26:43

was not going to be anything I say that's going to change his mind.

Kris: 00:26:48

I just dropped it; I did let DVR know this was his perspective.

Kris: 00:26:52

He said, "well, because DVR, they'll help me get the job anyway."

Kris: 00:26:56

He thinks that it's going to be given to him on a silver platter,

Kris: 00:26:59

and I gave DVR that heads up that this is what we had talked about.

Kris: 00:27:05

There are some people you can tell that they're open.

Kris: 00:27:07

They don't realize that things have changed, and when I start talking

Kris: 00:27:11

about researching the company, because they're going ask you, "Well,

Kris: 00:27:14

what do you know about our company?"

Kris: 00:27:15

in an interview, practicing some of those interview questions.

Kris: 00:27:20

You have to be prepared as a job seeker, and job seekers

Kris: 00:27:25

don't necessarily realize that.

Kris: 00:27:27

It's a lot of work to find work and you kind of have to

Kris: 00:27:34

play off of how that person is.

Kris: 00:27:36

If they're open to your feedback, open to those suggestions, sometimes it is a

Kris: 00:27:42

process and you have to do baby steps.

Kris: 00:27:45

I know I'm the type of person, I just want to give you everything all at one time.

Kris: 00:27:48

I do that work, I do that in Toastmasters, and I really have to pull myself back

Kris: 00:27:55

because I expect everyone to be at the same level where I am, my same thought

Kris: 00:28:01

process of this is what is important so I have to take care of this.

Kris: 00:28:06

Not everyone is there.

Kris: 00:28:08

I always have to look at each individual and see where they are

Kris: 00:28:13

of how much I can push for them.

Kris: 00:28:15

I've had a couple individuals come in.

Kris: 00:28:18

They lost their job that morning and they come straight in, "I

Kris: 00:28:21

need to apply for unemployment.

Kris: 00:28:23

I need to work on a resume.

Kris: 00:28:24

I need to find a job."

Kris: 00:28:25

Well, by the time they get that third sentence out, they are in tears because

Kris: 00:28:29

they are this, there's so much grief, there's so much to process, and I've

Kris: 00:28:34

told those people, I said, you're, we're not doing anything today.

Kris: 00:28:37

You are not in the frame of mind.

Kris: 00:28:40

I said, these are some of the things I want you to work on over the next

Kris: 00:28:43

couple of days, come back, then we can start working on your resume.

Kris: 00:28:48

Then, we can start working on this.

Kris: 00:28:51

You need to just take some time, get your head wrapped around this

Kris: 00:28:56

situation because this is a huge loss.

Kris: 00:28:59

If you just were terminated from a position through your

Kris: 00:29:02

fault or not your fault.

Kris: 00:29:04

It's a huge thing to comprehend.

Kris: 00:29:08

We have workshops on job loss strategies.

Kris: 00:29:12

You're going through those five stages of grief if you've lost a loved one.

Kris: 00:29:16

Same thing happens when you've lost your job.

Kris: 00:29:19

I'll try and relate.

Kris: 00:29:21

When I had lost my job, I was unemployed for three months.

Kris: 00:29:24

I thought, whew, I'll get a job right away.

Kris: 00:29:26

Not a big deal.

Kris: 00:29:28

It took over a year and a half to find my full-time position.

Kris: 00:29:33

I found a temp job in the meantime, but it's a lot to take in, and it

Kris: 00:29:40

was a lady and I sent her away and she came back the following week.

Kris: 00:29:46

We worked on her resume.

Kris: 00:29:48

She got a job within a week or two, because at that point then when

Kris: 00:29:52

she came back, she was in a frame of mind to accept the suggestions

Kris: 00:29:58

and information I was sharing.

Kris: 00:30:00

She was ready to put in the work that was needed, and I love when that happens.

Kris: 00:30:07

I love the success stories.

Kris: 00:30:09

I had one gentleman, and he had had a stroke.

Kris: 00:30:13

He had very limited use of the left side of his body, and so I did a lot

Kris: 00:30:20

of the typing and application entry for him, which we're not supposed

Kris: 00:30:24

to do, but I worked with him four or five months, and then he got a

Kris: 00:30:28

temp position, and then after three months they hired him on full-time.

Kris: 00:30:33

Every couple months he would stop back in just to say hi, give an update,

Kris: 00:30:38

how he's enjoying the work, pretty much doing everything one-handed.

Kris: 00:30:42

He's keeping up with everyone else, and it was a fast-paced situation.

Kris: 00:30:47

I love hearing those success stories.

Joshua: 00:30:49

You have said a lot when it has come to the realm of vocational

Joshua: 00:30:54

rehabilitation, which is something that I have worked in myself for a number of

Joshua: 00:30:58

years working with blind entrepreneurs, and you also touched on a lot of personal

Joshua: 00:31:04

stories about some of those people that have come through your services or

Joshua: 00:31:09

even started to work on what that next reality is for them, especially with

Joshua: 00:31:15

all the things that they have going on.

Joshua: 00:31:17

I want to ask you this.

Joshua: 00:31:20

What are two things that you would recommend to somebody, whether they are

Joshua: 00:31:25

going through a difficult time, whether they were just released from prison

Joshua: 00:31:28

and they happen to find this podcast, if they were going through a traumatic

Joshua: 00:31:34

situation in which they've had to relocate, what are the top two things

Joshua: 00:31:39

that they should do starting today that would help them to get to the next step?

Joshua: 00:31:45

I should caveat by saying that this should be relating to the job searching process,

Joshua: 00:31:49

so even getting to an application.

Kris: 00:31:51

Sure.

Kris: 00:31:53

I think having the positive mindset, and knowing that

Kris: 00:32:01

things have changed over time.

Kris: 00:32:03

You need to have basic computer skills.

Kris: 00:32:05

You can't always rely on what you have done in the past.

Kris: 00:32:11

Things have changed technology-wise, the way that businesses work, what

Kris: 00:32:16

they are producing nowadays, what your role within a company is, being

Kris: 00:32:22

open-minded to knowing that things have changed, I think is number one.

Kris: 00:32:28

Number two would be to learn new skills, because the more skills

Kris: 00:32:37

that you have, especially those soft skills, those interpersonal skills,

Kris: 00:32:41

the ones that help you to develop the relationships that you are going

Kris: 00:32:46

to need when you are in a new job.

Kris: 00:32:50

Those are the two things to think about and be most aware of.

Joshua: 00:32:56

What a great part one of my interview with Kris where we really

Joshua: 00:32:59

focused on not just the job skills that are important for someone be

Joshua: 00:33:04

able to grow, but I loved her personal stories that she connected with as

Joshua: 00:33:08

it related to the candidates and the people that would come through the

Joshua: 00:33:12

door throughout her job that she has currently, but how it easily transferred

Joshua: 00:33:17

over from the things that she was doing while she was locked up in prison.

Joshua: 00:33:22

Folks, if you were missing the joke, she was not ever in jail; she worked at a

Joshua: 00:33:27

jail as a result of her employment, and I found that to be incredibly awesome to

Joshua: 00:33:33

hear because of not just the ways that we often think about prisoners and after

Joshua: 00:33:40

they are serving their term, going back in the workforce, we're thinking that

Joshua: 00:33:44

maybe they have no opportunity, no skills, they are just going to be really tough

Joshua: 00:33:50

to retrain and get into the workforce.

Joshua: 00:33:52

These are people that are the hardest working and have built back whatever

Joshua: 00:33:58

they had lost as a result of some of the mistakes that had happened.

Joshua: 00:34:02

Maybe that might have been of their fault, maybe that had have been of their fault.

Joshua: 00:34:05

But nevertheless, they have been able to move forward.

Joshua: 00:34:10

Now, if you are in the Wisconsin area, Kris did leave a link with me

Joshua: 00:34:13

for the job center of Wisconsin that if you are in Wisconsin you need any

Joshua: 00:34:19

help, you can check out their website, jobcenterofwisconsin.com; I'll put it in

Joshua: 00:34:25

the show notes, and they have resources not only for those that are in the area,

Joshua: 00:34:30

but even if you're looking for any sort of training or any sort of opportunity, this

Joshua: 00:34:34

is a great website to check out even as somebody that might not even have anything

Joshua: 00:34:38

to do with the state of Wisconsin.

Joshua: 00:34:41

I really loved Kris's story about all the things that she has been through in

Joshua: 00:34:47

a medical perspective, because sometimes even having some of those difficulties,

Joshua: 00:34:52

you have to find a way inwardly to work through them and we've had guests on

Joshua: 00:34:57

this show already that have talked about their vast experiences and been able

Joshua: 00:35:02

to overcome them as a result of that.

Joshua: 00:35:05

It wasn't just about the things that she was giving us tips, it was about her

Joshua: 00:35:09

personality, her approach to this, and I really enjoyed that she was able to

Joshua: 00:35:14

change all the things about, not just the people that were coming through the

Joshua: 00:35:19

door and that we were trying to always make positive strides in our life to

Joshua: 00:35:23

go in that right direction, but she said something that was really keen

Joshua: 00:35:27

for me, which is to find something that unlocks them, and we've been talking

Joshua: 00:35:32

in a lot of various episodes about that potential that is within somebody.

Joshua: 00:35:37

Something that is so dormant that sometimes it's even hard for us to

Joshua: 00:35:40

find out, what can we do to go from the point A that we're at right

Joshua: 00:35:45

now to move on to the point B?

Joshua: 00:35:48

I really loved how she took that personality and how she takes that

Joshua: 00:35:53

opportunity for people that are going through such a hard time and is

Joshua: 00:35:57

willing to apply herself to help them get to the next step, so much so that

Joshua: 00:36:03

she has people lining up to see her.

Joshua: 00:36:06

What a great person to be able to know, who is just so contagious with her

Joshua: 00:36:12

personality and positivity that you want to go up and listen to them, and that's

Joshua: 00:36:17

the key is that we have to find ourselves to listen to people so that we can create

Joshua: 00:36:23

that value, and sometimes realizing those things and having the opportunity to be

Joshua: 00:36:29

able to listen is a challenge in itself.

Joshua: 00:36:33

It does require active listening, as some of my other guests have mentioned.

Joshua: 00:36:37

I love Kris' point of view when it comes to not just dealing with that, but also

Joshua: 00:36:42

realizing that things have changed in the world and what used to work maybe 10 or

Joshua: 00:36:49

20 years ago doesn't always work at the same time, at the same place, in the same

Joshua: 00:36:55

manner as maybe things are working today.

Joshua: 00:37:00

Nobody's entitled to anything.

Joshua: 00:37:02

You always have to show your worth because people don't

Joshua: 00:37:04

necessarily know what that is.

Joshua: 00:37:07

I know that for a fact.

Joshua: 00:37:08

Listen to me, on a podcast, trying to show you that I have confidence,

Joshua: 00:37:13

relationships, and determination to change the world as we view it using our voice.

Joshua: 00:37:20

I know, I stitched that all together in one nice package about my whole entire

Joshua: 00:37:25

business, Your Speaking Voice, but that's what it takes is having that opportunity

Joshua: 00:37:30

of a lifetime to prove yourself, to showcase what you truly are, and

Joshua: 00:37:36

doing it in as little time as you can, because some people don't have enough

Joshua: 00:37:40

time to do that, and time is precious.

Joshua: 00:37:45

It's not to subject anybody and put them down into another category.

Joshua: 00:37:49

It's just that for many of us, we can embellish.

Joshua: 00:37:53

We can show what we can do, given all the tools that we have, and if we had infinite

Joshua: 00:38:00

amount of time, we could show that throughout the vast experiences that we

Joshua: 00:38:04

have lived on this earth, whether that's been for 20, 30, 40, so on and so forth.

Joshua: 00:38:12

All those different year combinations, all those different decades; each of

Joshua: 00:38:18

us bring something unique to the table, but we also have to be prepared to

Joshua: 00:38:22

not only address what we are qualified to do, but the people that are on the

Joshua: 00:38:28

other side of the table have to also be ready for the questions and answers

Joshua: 00:38:33

that you are going to respond to.

Joshua: 00:38:35

That's why they are looking for somebody that is unique.

Joshua: 00:38:40

Don't ever take that for granted.

Joshua: 00:38:42

Sometimes just getting over that aspect of feeling like you are nervous and afraid

Joshua: 00:38:49

can be the very first step in showcasing all of those different opportunities,

Joshua: 00:38:53

which for my business, I do offer resumes.

Joshua: 00:38:56

I do offer interview preparation.

Joshua: 00:38:58

I do offer confidence building, but the problem is, I can give you all these

Joshua: 00:39:04

things, but if I draw a line in the sand and I ask you to step forward knowing

Joshua: 00:39:09

that you have to take responsibility for some of the work that you're going to

Joshua: 00:39:13

put into it, are you going to put it in?

Joshua: 00:39:16

Are you going to be some of those people that have been released from prison

Joshua: 00:39:20

and they're ready to take things on?

Joshua: 00:39:24

If you are a listener that has been in prison, I have to say that I have

Joshua: 00:39:28

the utmost respect for you because it isn't just the fact that you have gone

Joshua: 00:39:32

through some of the things that you have endured and come on the other side being

Joshua: 00:39:38

a different type of person, but you have shown yourself to be somebody that

Joshua: 00:39:44

you never thought possible after going through the experiences that you have.

Joshua: 00:39:49

I'm proud.

Joshua: 00:39:50

I'm honored, and I enjoy the conversation that I had with Kris as a result of that

Joshua: 00:39:58

and getting to understand more about what some of those people go through.

Joshua: 00:40:03

Now, I have to say, that sometimes that even if you have all those

Joshua: 00:40:08

things ahead of you, addressing the steps ahead are the most important.

Joshua: 00:40:13

If you're able to do that, nothing is impossible.

Joshua: 00:40:17

We'll continue this conversation in part two of episode 12, which

Joshua: 00:40:21

will air tomorrow, but until then, thanks for listening to Speaking

Joshua: 00:40:25

From The Heart, and I look forward to hearing from your heart very soon.

Outro: 00:40:29

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Outro: 00:40:30

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