Episode #16 - Practicing Creates Opportunities: An Interview With Ken Krawchuk

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Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

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determination, all converge into an amazing, heartfelt experience.

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This is Speaking From The Heart.

Joshua: 00:00:11

Welcome back to episode number 16 of Speaking From the Heart.

Joshua: 00:00:15

Today, I'm really excited for our guest, Ken Krawchuk.

Joshua: 00:00:19

Ken is somebody that has been one of the inspirations for me to start podcasting

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as a result of his own show that he has on WWDB 860 AM in Philadelphia

Joshua: 00:00:29

called The Pennsylvania Project.

Joshua: 00:00:32

Ken has been a registered Libertarian since 1993 and he's been able to

Joshua: 00:00:37

serve two terms as chair of the Libertarian Party of Pennsylvania.

Joshua: 00:00:40

He's run for public office over 10 times, which includes four runs for Abington

Joshua: 00:00:45

Township Commissioner, once for US Congress, twice for state representative

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of Pennsylvania, and three record breaking runs for the Governor of Pennsylvania.

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In 2000, he sought the Libertarian nomination for the US Vice

Joshua: 00:00:58

President, which ultimately placed him third in a field of five.

Joshua: 00:01:02

He currently serves as a libertarian party judicial committee at the

Joshua: 00:01:05

county, state, and national levels, and as of this recording, he had

Joshua: 00:01:10

kicked off his campaign for being Libertarian Governor of Pennsylvania

Joshua: 00:01:16

in the future election of 2026.

Joshua: 00:01:20

Ken's been an information technology professional.

He has written two books: 00:01:23

first one being Atlas Snubbed, which we talk a little bit

He has written two books: 00:01:27

about in the interview, along with no Dogs on Mars: A Starship Story, which is set 33

He has written two books: 00:01:34

years in the future during the days when Mars is in process of being colonized.

He has written two books: 00:01:39

Ken's also been a Distinguished Toastmaster.

He has written two books: 00:01:41

He's been in Toastmasters, which we talk a little bit about his long, impressive

He has written two books: 00:01:46

career, and I really enjoy the fact that in this episode we really got to be able

He has written two books: 00:01:52

to have a casual conversation that then turned into some of the most important

He has written two books: 00:01:56

lessons that he has learned throughout his journey, not only as being a professional,

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but also running into the political realm.

He has written two books: 00:02:05

With that, let's go to the episode.

He has written two books: 00:02:07

We're here with Ken Krawchuk.

He has written two books: 00:02:09

Ken, thanks for sharing your heart with us.

Ken: 00:02:11

Hey, Joshua.

Ken: 00:02:12

Thank you for the opportunity.

Joshua: 00:02:13

Yes, I am excited because you are one of those people that has lived

Joshua: 00:02:18

a very dynamic life and continues to live a very dynamic life, and I'm

Joshua: 00:02:24

really excited to have you on the show.

Joshua: 00:02:28

Ken, there's so much that I could easily start off with as a question and

he thing that I landed on was: 00:02:34

Why?

he thing that I landed on was: 00:02:38

No, I'm just kidding that.

he thing that I landed on was: 00:02:39

No, I'm just kidding.

he thing that I landed on was: 00:02:41

What motivates you to do all these things?

he thing that I landed on was: 00:02:43

My audience heard about your impressive background that has spanned many decades

he thing that I landed on was: 00:02:47

running even into the Libertarian Party and running for governor.

he thing that I landed on was: 00:02:52

What motivates you to just give back in that way?

Ken: 00:02:56

That's an easy question because it has to be fun.

Ken: 00:03:00

If it's not fun, then Kenny don't play that.

Ken: 00:03:03

I love my career.

Ken: 00:03:04

I love my job.

Ken: 00:03:05

I love going out camping; put a pack on my back and climb outside of a

Ken: 00:03:08

mountain on the Appalachian Trail.

Ken: 00:03:10

I like the public speaking.

Ken: 00:03:12

I like the political debates where it's easy to make the

Ken: 00:03:14

other guys look like idiots.

Ken: 00:03:17

It's all comes down to, I do nothing but fun.

Ken: 00:03:21

I've had jobs where, turned out it was nothing but heads down spreadsheet

Ken: 00:03:25

work, and it's like, "oh, come on."

Ken: 00:03:28

You try it out for a month or so, you say, "no, this ain't me," and you move on.

Joshua: 00:03:33

When you were trying those things and moving on, what would you say was

Joshua: 00:03:37

one of those jobs that you had that you went in there and you thought, "no, no

Joshua: 00:03:42

way, I'm not going back", might have been one of those jobs that you had one

Joshua: 00:03:45

day, or maybe you had for a few months and said, "this isn't a good fit."

Joshua: 00:03:49

Can you tell us about one of those situations?

Ken: 00:03:51

Oh, sure can, and I always give them time.

Ken: 00:03:54

One day, two days; one week, two weeks; even that's not enough,

Ken: 00:03:59

but there was one, it was for a place that does insurance software.

Ken: 00:04:03

I used to have an insurance agent license that was one of my many,

Ken: 00:04:06

many careers, and they hired me for that but it was a startup.

Ken: 00:04:10

If they had maybe a hundred, 110 people, and the place was growing so fast that

Ken: 00:04:16

it was a mess, so they would say, "All right, Ken, go out to these clients

Ken: 00:04:20

and pitch the software and get 'em converted over", and I say, "Fine.

Ken: 00:04:24

If I go in there, start to do that..."

Ken: 00:04:27

"Oh wait, I need the documentation."

Ken: 00:04:28

"Oh, that's not written yet."

Ken: 00:04:30

"Okay.

Ken: 00:04:30

They're asking for the documentation."

Ken: 00:04:32

"Well stall, put them off."

Ken: 00:04:35

"Say what?"

Ken: 00:04:36

They want ME, to lie, to a customer?

Ken: 00:04:40

I've been a consultant now since the late seventies, aren't I?

Ken: 00:04:43

Do the math?

Ken: 00:04:43

What's that?

Ken: 00:04:44

Come out to be about 40 some years.

Joshua: 00:04:46

Mm-hmm.

Ken: 00:04:46

In every case, I'd like to leave there with the people saying, "you know,

Ken: 00:04:49

Ken, we'd hire you if we could.", but this place, it set me up for failure.

Ken: 00:04:54

Don't stay around with something that sets you up for failure.

Ken: 00:04:58

It's not fun.

Joshua: 00:05:01

When you ran for Governor of Pennsylvania or, even the subsequent years

Joshua: 00:05:06

after that, and I'm sure that there has been a little bit of a sting of thinking,

Joshua: 00:05:11

"Man, I lost, I feel like a little bit of a failure, or do you not feel that way?"

Ken: 00:05:16

No.

Ken: 00:05:16

What's your goal?

Ken: 00:05:18

When you do something like this, you have something in mind that you want to do,

Ken: 00:05:22

and victory is what you define as victory, and going into it, there was no illusion

Ken: 00:05:29

in my mind that I was going to win.

Ken: 00:05:31

I mean, it was in the cards, but the deck was pretty well stacked against

Ken: 00:05:35

me, but look, I'll give you an example.

Ken: 00:05:39

The 2002 race for governor; in order for the Libertarian party to be

Ken: 00:05:44

considered a real political party under the law, we needed to get a certain

Ken: 00:05:50

number of votes, and that was my goal.

Ken: 00:05:52

It's 2% of the highest vote getter in the prior election for that district.

Ken: 00:05:57

That's how the law reads.

Ken: 00:05:58

Pretty complicated.

Joshua: 00:05:59

Mm-hmm.

Ken: 00:05:59

But that came out, it was about 40,000 votes.

Ken: 00:06:04

That was my goal, and I hit it.

Ken: 00:06:06

I got, I guess it's around 42,000 votes, something like that.

Ken: 00:06:09

The party was ecstatic with me.

Ken: 00:06:11

Hallelujah!

Ken: 00:06:12

Now people could register as a libertarian, we could appoint people

Ken: 00:06:15

directly into special elections, we had a monopoly on the libertarian name.

Ken: 00:06:20

It was the first time we had done it, and I set records in the party.

Ken: 00:06:23

No governor candidate ever done that well, and I was the only statewide candidate

Ken: 00:06:28

running that year, so everything was on my shoulders and our party leadership did

Ken: 00:06:33

not like me and did not want me to run.

Ken: 00:06:36

So that was a, "haha.

Ken: 00:06:37

Gotcha."

Joshua: 00:06:39

Even with all those people that were against you, even your own party,

Joshua: 00:06:43

what has driven you to continue to be involved, because I've seen that even

Joshua: 00:06:48

after all these decades, you still are an active participant even in the party.

Joshua: 00:06:52

What has kept you to stay involved?

Ken: 00:06:55

I'm having an impact.

Ken: 00:06:56

I could see it, and it's not just, not only on the opposition, but

Ken: 00:07:00

also people inside my own party.

Ken: 00:07:03

I've had strangers walk up to me and they shake a Pennsylvania

Ken: 00:07:05

Constitution at me saying, "I never read this until you mentioned it.

Ken: 00:07:09

I didn't even know this existed.

Ken: 00:07:10

I'm surprised the things I've learned out of this.", and they're just so

Ken: 00:07:14

many things, and I have political victories like my hometown, I

Ken: 00:07:18

defeated an anti-graffiti ordinance.

Ken: 00:07:21

If you had graffiti, they were going to come onto your property

Ken: 00:07:23

without your permission, cleaned it up, bill you for the cleanup and

Ken: 00:07:27

sentence you to community service.

Ken: 00:07:29

Well, I dubbed that the Persecute the Victim Act, and had that

Ken: 00:07:33

defeated, so many other things.

Ken: 00:07:35

I go into a big, long list of victories that we've had, court case

Ken: 00:07:39

victories, and as long as you're making headway, as long as you're seeing

Ken: 00:07:45

positive stuff, does everyone work?

Ken: 00:07:47

No, never.

Ken: 00:07:49

Never works out that way, but you learn from it and you move on.

Ken: 00:07:53

What I like about Toastmasters is that you learn what you could be doing better.

Joshua: 00:07:58

I will leave in the show notes too for those that are interested about

Joshua: 00:08:02

joining Toastmasters because it has helped so many people, and Ken, you're one of the

Joshua: 00:08:07

many guests that have come before that, and will continue to come after, that have

Joshua: 00:08:12

really benefited from the program, and I overemphasize the importance of that,

Joshua: 00:08:16

which I want to get into a little bit later with your own show that you have.

Joshua: 00:08:21

I had one last thing wrapping up your politics.

Joshua: 00:08:25

I don't think I really realized this on a personal level and reading your

Joshua: 00:08:29

biography made me want to ask you this.

Joshua: 00:08:32

You ran for US Vice President in 2000 for the Libertarian nomination.

Joshua: 00:08:37

What would you say was the biggest difference between going for something

Joshua: 00:08:41

like that role, which is national as opposed to doing the governor race?

Joshua: 00:08:47

Was there a big distinction?

Ken: 00:08:49

No, actually it was the other way around.

Ken: 00:08:51

Now I had run in 1998 for governor and I was new.

Ken: 00:08:56

I'm mean it, I had been a Toastmaster for one year and I just wasn't that

Ken: 00:08:59

polished, and I got nominated in April for a November election, and there just

Ken: 00:09:05

was not time to get ready or anything like that, but it was so much fun.

Ken: 00:09:09

I had a good time doing it, and it was 98 race and our convention

Ken: 00:09:14

in early 99, I told the party I had a great time, I learned a lot.

Ken: 00:09:18

I want to do it again, and I spent three years getting ready for it, and

Ken: 00:09:23

the 2002 campaign, it remains my most successful campaign by any measure.

Ken: 00:09:28

Between 98 and 2002, my campaign manager, guy out in Western Pennsylvania, he says,

Ken: 00:09:35

"Why don't we try for Vice President?"

Ken: 00:09:37

I'm like, "What?

Ken: 00:09:38

Are you crazy?"

Ken: 00:09:39

I'm not a national guy.

Ken: 00:09:40

I'm a state guy.

Ken: 00:09:41

I like Pennsylvania.

Ken: 00:09:41

I know Pennsylvania.

Ken: 00:09:42

I know the laws here.

Ken: 00:09:43

I know the Constitution, but he said, "No.

Ken: 00:09:46

Think of it this way.

Ken: 00:09:47

We could practice."

Ken: 00:09:49

The goal of the Vice President race was to practice for a Pennsylvania race,

Ken: 00:09:56

and I figured if I could put together a national race with national volunteers

Ken: 00:10:00

all over the place, well Pennsylvania would be a piece of cake, and as it turned

Ken: 00:10:04

out, it was easy in comparison, plus now I had a national base of people who

Ken: 00:10:10

knew me from outside of Pennsylvania: donors, volunteers; it was just great.

Ken: 00:10:16

In fact, it was in 2004, a bunch of people put together an exploratory committee

Ken: 00:10:21

to run me for President, and I actually did a couple of interviews along that.

Ken: 00:10:27

I really didn't want to really be vice president, it was meant to be a practice

Ken: 00:10:31

race, and I told delegates that too.

Ken: 00:10:33

The one interesting outcome of all that, on the first ballot,

Ken: 00:10:37

there was no clear winner.

Ken: 00:10:39

It was 40 some percent, 40 some percent, and I had 9%.

Ken: 00:10:43

What I did is I stood up there, I wasn't going to win.

Ken: 00:10:46

I went up there and says, "You know, I'm going to do the honorable thing here.

Ken: 00:10:48

I'm going to step aside so we don't have to do another ballot, and I'm

Ken: 00:10:51

gonna be casting my vote for Art Olivier from California," and Art

Ken: 00:10:55

became our Vice Presidential candidate.

Ken: 00:10:57

In 2000, I personally chose the Libertarian Party's

Ken: 00:11:01

Vice Presidential candidate.

Ken: 00:11:03

Never imagined something like that would ever happen.

Joshua: 00:11:05

That has to be empowering too, to kind of know that I got

Joshua: 00:11:08

these cards in my deck and Yeah.

Joshua: 00:11:10

I know that I could continue to play it, but I'm not going to get anywhere with it,

Joshua: 00:11:14

and we want to show unity, so I'm going to throw my chips in and say, "This is

Joshua: 00:11:17

who I'm going for, and that's who it was."

Ken: 00:11:19

Yeah.

Ken: 00:11:20

Yeah.

Ken: 00:11:21

I get so many compliments after this, like, "Dude, you got class."

Joshua: 00:11:24

Yeah.

Joshua: 00:11:24

Wow.

Ken: 00:11:25

Nobody told me that before.

Joshua: 00:11:27

I wish more people would tell me I have class, but I think I

Joshua: 00:11:30

continue to buck that trend myself, which, speaking of bucking trends, you

Joshua: 00:11:36

really do that because of Toastmasters.

Joshua: 00:11:39

The audience knows a lot about your record of being involved with it,

Joshua: 00:11:43

and how many days have you been involved with Toastmasters now?

Ken: 00:11:46

Let's see.

Joshua: 00:11:48

As of this recording?

Ken: 00:11:49

9,350.

Joshua: 00:11:52

Okay, so-

Ken: 00:11:53

That's- I remember the first- I remember the first of the

Ken: 00:11:55

month, the first of every month.

Ken: 00:11:56

This year is 9320, so today's the 30th, so I add on 30 days.

Joshua: 00:12:01

You have almost 10,000 days in Toastmasters, right?

Ken: 00:12:04

Yeah, and it's already on my calendar to celebrate.

Joshua: 00:12:08

See, Ken, for my audience, Ken, I know would definitely have this number

Joshua: 00:12:12

memorized, or at least have some quick calculation to be able to say it right on

Joshua: 00:12:17

the recording, so I'm glad that we got it.

Ken: 00:12:20

You going to talk more about Toastmasters?

Joshua: 00:12:22

Yeah.

Joshua: 00:12:22

Actually I wanted to ask you about that.

Joshua: 00:12:24

When you have gone through almost 10,000 days of doing this communication and

Joshua: 00:12:30

leadership experience, why do you stay in it, and what would you say to somebody

Joshua: 00:12:37

that is looking to find not only their voice, but also maybe pick up a couple

Joshua: 00:12:44

extra skills along the way for their personal and professional development?

Ken: 00:12:47

Oh man.

Ken: 00:12:48

There's just so many things about it.

Ken: 00:12:51

I joined because I wanted to get more active in politics and before I was

Ken: 00:12:57

a Toastmaster, I used to get asthma attacks if I tried to speak in public.

Joshua: 00:13:00

Wow.

Ken: 00:13:01

People who know me now, they're like, "Oh yeah, come on, Ken.

Ken: 00:13:03

That's not true," but it is.

Ken: 00:13:05

I remember going to see my Congressman, Larry Coughlin, when they were putting

Ken: 00:13:09

up the space station, wasn't up yet.

Ken: 00:13:10

I went to ask him about it halfway through my question, I

Ken: 00:13:13

couldn't breathe; it's terrible.

Ken: 00:13:16

A guy came up to me and he says, "Oh, you nervous?"

Ken: 00:13:19

I says, "Yeah, right.

Ken: 00:13:20

Some people get butterflies; I get terradactyls.", but he says, "no,

Ken: 00:13:24

you ought try joining Toastmasters."

Ken: 00:13:26

Change my life, absolutely, completely.

Ken: 00:13:29

By the time, I joined in 97, by the time the 2002 race came around, I had it down.

Ken: 00:13:34

I knew what I was doing.

Ken: 00:13:35

Nothing would shake me.

Ken: 00:13:37

I was meeting Tom Ridge and Ed Rendell and all these big national

Ken: 00:13:40

big wigs; didn't matter to me.

Ken: 00:13:42

The cool thing is, I was in Toastmasters for that, but at that point, it turned

Ken: 00:13:49

around the other way because there are other people who are coming in

Ken: 00:13:52

who get asthma attacks when they're trying to speak, and I was there to

Ken: 00:13:57

not pay it back, but to pay it forward, but that's only half of it because

Ken: 00:14:02

I belonged to three different clubs.

Ken: 00:14:03

It was four.

Ken: 00:14:04

I let one go.

Ken: 00:14:05

I belonged to three different clubs.

Ken: 00:14:07

5, 6, 7 times a month, somebody is saying, "Ken, you're

Ken: 00:14:11

starting to pace a little bit."

Ken: 00:14:13

"Ken, watch how fast you're talking there."

Ken: 00:14:15

"Ken, watch out for this."

Ken: 00:14:16

I'm constantly honing my game, so I'm getting two things out of Toastmasters:

Ken: 00:14:21

first, I'm helping others like they helped me, and second of all, they're

Ken: 00:14:25

helping me like we help others.

Ken: 00:14:29

I talk all the time, not only just for the radio show, not just Toastmasters,

Ken: 00:14:33

but I'm a professional public speaker.

Ken: 00:14:36

There are people who actually pay me to speak and I know people

Ken: 00:14:39

who would pay me to shut up.

Joshua: 00:14:41

Well, don't worry, well, I'm not paying you to shut up, that's why

Joshua: 00:14:44

I asked you to be on the show for sure.

Joshua: 00:14:46

I wonder, when you are talking about these people that have gone through

Joshua: 00:14:52

similar experiences like you with asthma and have gone through things like

Joshua: 00:14:57

this when they're considering joining Toastmasters, pivoting back a little bit

Joshua: 00:15:01

with even the campaigns that you've been involved in, have you used those skills

Joshua: 00:15:04

in Toastmasters to help people that are being groomed into your campaign to help

Joshua: 00:15:11

you become maybe the next forerunner, maybe somebody to help another person out.

Joshua: 00:15:17

Have you been able to do that and make relationships with people and tell

Joshua: 00:15:20

us a little bit how you've done that?

Ken: 00:15:22

The first one that comes to mind is a guy named Richard.

Ken: 00:15:24

He's been in the party longer than I have.

Ken: 00:15:26

Not many people have been in the party longer than I have.

Ken: 00:15:28

I'm getting to be a real gray beard, but I talked to him into

Ken: 00:15:32

joining Toastmasters, and he and I were, I would call him my nemesis.

Ken: 00:15:37

We weren't arch enemies, we're on the same side, but just didn't always work out.

Ken: 00:15:42

All of a sudden, this guy went from being a pain in the butt to

Ken: 00:15:45

a competent communicator, and he is using my own tricks against me.

Joshua: 00:15:49

Hmm.

Ken: 00:15:50

You know, and now he and I, we're the best of friends.

Ken: 00:15:53

We've gotten past that early stuff, but that's a good example.

Ken: 00:15:58

Another one is in the Libertarian party, they play a drinking game.

Ken: 00:16:02

Every time I say the word "Toastmasters," everybody has to take a drink.

Joshua: 00:16:06

I'm taking one right now.

Ken: 00:16:08

No.

Ken: 00:16:08

Alcohol.

Joshua: 00:16:09

Mm, I'm sorry.

Joshua: 00:16:11

Didn't have that all night.

Ken: 00:16:13

It actually happened earlier this year at the state convention.

Ken: 00:16:16

I stood up and told people that I would be available to run for

Ken: 00:16:19

governor in 2026 if the party wanted me, and I talked for only about two,

Ken: 00:16:24

three minutes, wasn't that long.

Ken: 00:16:26

After I sat down, one of the delegates gets up, says, "Yeah,

Ken: 00:16:28

point of personal privilege.

Ken: 00:16:30

Somebody should check in to Ken's background.

Ken: 00:16:31

I think he's a federal agent because he did not mention Toastmasters."

Joshua: 00:16:38

That was the first time that you never mentioned Toastmasters.

Ken: 00:16:41

Yeah, so thank you very much for that.

Joshua: 00:16:43

Ken, I know that you've been an author of a few books and I mentioned to

Joshua: 00:16:48

the audience already about Atlas Snubbed and No Dogs on Mars: A Starship Story.

Joshua: 00:16:54

Do you want to elaborate a little bit more about those books and maybe how

Joshua: 00:16:59

you got about the influence with them?

Ken: 00:17:01

There's a deep, dark secret that very, very few people know.

Ken: 00:17:04

You know, David Easlea, one of our fellow Toastmasters.

Joshua: 00:17:07

Yes.

Ken: 00:17:08

I've known David since the mid- eighties, so he knew me when, so you

Ken: 00:17:12

could double check these stories with him.

Joshua: 00:17:14

I wasn't born yet, just to put that in perspective.

Ken: 00:17:17

Yeah, whipper-snapper.

Ken: 00:17:19

David and I, we did a lot of fantasy war gaming together: Dungeons and

Ken: 00:17:22

Dragons type of stuff, fancy board games, but I wanted to get into writing.

Ken: 00:17:28

I wanted to foster a writing career, and David says, "Oh,

Ken: 00:17:32

you ought to run for office.

Ken: 00:17:33

You'll have to write a lot of speeches," and that's actually what happened.

Ken: 00:17:37

I'd said, "Yeah, I want to do a writing career," so I wound up doing the political

Ken: 00:17:41

stuff and then public speaking, and now I'm writing speeches all the time.

Ken: 00:17:46

My show is weekly and I usually have two 10 minute speeches, each show.

Ken: 00:17:52

How many shows have I done now?

Ken: 00:17:53

Over 200.

Ken: 00:17:54

Do the math.

Ken: 00:17:55

I've done about 500 speeches just for the radio show.

Joshua: 00:17:58

Wow.

Ken: 00:17:59

It's a lot.

Ken: 00:18:00

Anyway, I had started off to foster a writing career.

Ken: 00:18:03

It turned into a public speaking career, which I never expected,

Ken: 00:18:07

and then it went back to writing again because with the first book,

Ken: 00:18:11

Atlas Snubbed, it's 700 pages long.

Ken: 00:18:13

It took me 11 years to write the thing, and that was fun too.

Ken: 00:18:17

I wouldn't have done it if it wasn't fun.

Ken: 00:18:20

That was the culmination right there.

Ken: 00:18:21

It's a sequel to Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged which had some mistakes in it.

Ken: 00:18:25

I learned that because when I was running for public office, Ayn Rand is

Ken: 00:18:29

the matriarch of the Libertarian party.

Ken: 00:18:32

She doesn't like us, but too bad, we like her.

Ken: 00:18:35

She made mistakes and I had to defend some of her mistakes on a

Ken: 00:18:38

philosophical level out on the campaign trail, and that's what the book was.

Ken: 00:18:42

It was the result of the 2002 race.

Ken: 00:18:46

I had just finished re re ree rereading, Atlas Shrugged, 2002 in December, and

Ken: 00:18:54

I said to my wife, "we're going up Christmas visits," and I said, "Boy,

Ken: 00:18:57

it's shame the book ended right there.

Ken: 00:18:59

You know, there's starvation fighting in the streets and everything.

Ken: 00:19:02

Somebody should write a sequel."

Ken: 00:19:04

In one of those moments that get down to history, my wife

Ken: 00:19:06

said, "why don't you do it?"

Joshua: 00:19:08

Mmm.

Ken: 00:19:09

That was it, and it's just a continuation of everything

Ken: 00:19:13

else that I have been doing.

Joshua: 00:19:15

What was your influence about the No Dogs and Mars?

Joshua: 00:19:17

How did that come to be about?

Ken: 00:19:18

Oh, come on man.

Ken: 00:19:19

I'm a space buff.

Ken: 00:19:20

I already mentioned, I was following the Space Station years ago.

Ken: 00:19:24

I've been following Elon Musk since 2003.

Joshua: 00:19:27

Okay.

Ken: 00:19:28

I subscribed to Aviation Week and Space Technology, which is an insider's

Ken: 00:19:31

magazine, and they were making fun of him.

Ken: 00:19:33

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Ken: 00:19:34

Here's this rich Playboy.

Ken: 00:19:35

He's the co-founder of PayPal; give you an idea.

Ken: 00:19:38

He took his PayPal fortune, and he turned it into his car company, Tesla

Ken: 00:19:42

and SpaceX, but I was following him the whole time and he's my hero.

Ken: 00:19:48

There's no question.

Ken: 00:19:49

There's a from the heart for you, man.

Joshua: 00:19:51

That is from a heart, and as somebody that is autistic

Joshua: 00:19:54

that I found out just recently, I definitely relate to learning a

Joshua: 00:19:57

lot more about how Elon's journey has been as it relates to that too.

Joshua: 00:20:01

He's definitely has done a lot.

Joshua: 00:20:03

I don't know if you even knew about that, but we'll talk about that maybe

Joshua: 00:20:07

after this, but I want to spend a little bit of time now about your

Joshua: 00:20:13

pivotal project that you've been doing, The Pennsylvania Project, which I

Joshua: 00:20:18

have been honored to be one of your cohorts a few times on the show.

Ken: 00:20:22

Mm-hmm.

Joshua: 00:20:22

I know that you have brought toastmasters in to give them some

Joshua: 00:20:26

insight and some valuable experience when it comes to communication by

Joshua: 00:20:31

reading the advertisements for the show.

Joshua: 00:20:33

They even banter with you on the variety of different topics that you cover.

Joshua: 00:20:39

Walk us through a little bit of how you got started with that, because I think

Joshua: 00:20:42

a lot of people are interested in my audience about how you start things.

Joshua: 00:20:47

How do you start anywhere?

Joshua: 00:20:49

I'm really curious if you could share that with us.

Ken: 00:20:51

Wow.

Ken: 00:20:51

Well, for me, I think it'd be different for a regular person.

Joshua: 00:20:55

Yeah.

Ken: 00:20:56

I'm not a regular person, right?

Joshua: 00:20:57

I'm not a regular person either.

Ken: 00:20:58

Yeah, I know.

Ken: 00:21:00

When I ran for governor in 2018, one thing I did, it was a very good

Ken: 00:21:04

race, I did it very well, wasn't quite as active as my 2002 race.

Ken: 00:21:09

2002, I took nine months off from work and just did it full-time,

Ken: 00:21:13

that wasn't the other case.

Ken: 00:21:14

What I did do is every Wednesday night at 8:00 PM, I did a 10 minute

Ken: 00:21:18

talking to people, and different issues, and it's Facebook, so you can

Ken: 00:21:23

communicate back and forth, they would ask questions and things like that.

Ken: 00:21:27

Race was over in the end of 2018.

Ken: 00:21:30

In February of 2019, I get a call out of the blue from WWDB Radio saying,

Ken: 00:21:35

"Ken, saw what you're doing, you did that", for, we did 78 episodes total.

Ken: 00:21:40

It went for a year, year and a bit, not a year and a half almost,

Ken: 00:21:44

and he says, "and you were there every week and you did a good job.

Ken: 00:21:47

You got a good grasp.

Ken: 00:21:48

You're well communicate well.

Ken: 00:21:49

How would you like your own radio show?", and me, seconds go by in

Ken: 00:21:55

silence, and I say, "What would I say?"

Ken: 00:21:57

He said, "Anything you want."

Ken: 00:21:59

" Can I have guests?"

Ken: 00:22:01

"Anything you want?"

Ken: 00:22:03

"Can I run commercial?"

Ken: 00:22:04

"Ken, you're not listening; anything you want," and the first one aired

Ken: 00:22:09

in April of 2019, and I've been on the air for over four years now.

Ken: 00:22:14

My contract, they keep renewing it.

Ken: 00:22:15

They love me.

Ken: 00:22:17

I love doing it, especially you mentioned, I bring Toastmasters on.

Ken: 00:22:20

So far I have had over 100 different Toastmasters on the show, and of those

Ken: 00:22:26

Toastmasters, four of them have gone off to start their own radio shows.

Ken: 00:22:31

That's the big thing.

Ken: 00:22:32

I got a call out of the blue from the radio station, but now I'm an insider.

Ken: 00:22:36

I'm in the business.

Ken: 00:22:37

If you want a radio show, I can get you on the air.

Joshua: 00:22:41

I had one of your success stories, Chris Hulse, as the very first guest on my

Joshua: 00:22:47

show to talk about his travel podcast Off The Beaten Path, but I know that for many

Joshua: 00:22:54

people knowing you, Ken, you definitely bring those opportunities to people.

Joshua: 00:22:59

My question is, Why?, Going back to the original first question, why would

Joshua: 00:23:05

you bring other people into this?

Joshua: 00:23:07

I mean, you could have this be your own show and you could talk about anything

Joshua: 00:23:12

you want, like you said, the radio station told you you could do anything you want.

Ken: 00:23:15

Anything you want.

Joshua: 00:23:16

Why this format?

Ken: 00:23:18

Well, it's two separate questions there.

Ken: 00:23:20

You know, why do it?

Joshua: 00:23:21

Yeah.

Ken: 00:23:22

First of all, it's, it plays into everything that I want to do.

Ken: 00:23:26

I can do the writing, I can do the public speaking, I can help fellow

Ken: 00:23:29

Toastmasters, I can get the message out that we, Libertarians, believe

Ken: 00:23:34

you have the right to live your life your way, providing irrespective

Ken: 00:23:37

rights and property of others.

Ken: 00:23:39

That's a message that deserves to be repeated, and I think

Ken: 00:23:41

everybody believes that.

Ken: 00:23:43

Do you believe that?

Ken: 00:23:43

Put you on the spot.

Ken: 00:23:45

Do you believe you have the right to live your life your way as long as you

Ken: 00:23:47

respect the rights and property of others?

Joshua: 00:23:48

I have to put the link in the show notes of the episode that I was the cohort

Joshua: 00:23:53

on in which I took the libertarian quiz and I, no, it wasn't the libertarian quiz.

Joshua: 00:23:58

What was the quiz?

Joshua: 00:23:58

Can you remind me?

Ken: 00:23:59

The world's smallest political quiz.

Joshua: 00:24:02

Thank you.

Joshua: 00:24:02

Yes, I took the quiz and you could find out the results of that, but I

Joshua: 00:24:08

leaned all over the spectrum, I think when I took it, and I have to say that

Joshua: 00:24:13

even to this day, I'm sticking to what I said a couple years ago on that.

Ken: 00:24:17

Okay, and you're going to remind us?

Joshua: 00:24:20

I don't remember.

Joshua: 00:24:23

That's why I have to put the link in so that everybody can go and listen

Joshua: 00:24:27

to it, which is a free advertisement for you, Ken, because then they

Joshua: 00:24:29

actually have to go to a website and go listen to your radio show then too.

Ken: 00:24:33

Pennsylvaniaproject.com.

Joshua: 00:24:35

Yeah.

Joshua: 00:24:36

Tell us a little bit about not only what you do as part of the show, for

Joshua: 00:24:41

those that are not familiar with it, but also, where can they access it.

Ken: 00:24:47

Well, you go to Pennsylvaniaproject.com and there's a link

Ken: 00:24:50

there it says episodes and that'll get you to all 200, however many episodes.

Ken: 00:24:56

It's also on iHeartRadio, iTunes, Spotify, and a plethora of popular

Ken: 00:25:01

podcast providers, if you want to get alliterative, we're all over the place.

Ken: 00:25:05

Just Google Pennsylvania Project.

Ken: 00:25:06

You'll find it.

Ken: 00:25:07

It's easy enough.

Ken: 00:25:09

Atlassnubbed.com for that book.

Ken: 00:25:12

Astarshipstory.com, and it's not just a novel there.

Ken: 00:25:16

I have a whole bunch of short stories that are out there for free, including one

Ken: 00:25:19

that I wrote when I was in high school.

Ken: 00:25:21

It's a joke Star Trek episode from the original series.

Joshua: 00:25:24

Being a Trekkie myself, I know that I enjoy that so much.

Joshua: 00:25:30

Ken, I want to wrap up as we get closer to the end of time with this question,

Joshua: 00:25:33

because it's been on my mind, especially as of lately, and reading through some of

Joshua: 00:25:39

the things that you've accomplished, I'm kind of curious on your take of this too.

Joshua: 00:25:43

There's a lot that's changed over the last several decades when it comes to politics

Joshua: 00:25:48

and even just the way that we communicate with each other, and I just had a guess

Joshua: 00:25:53

in my last interview episode in which we talked about that a little bit.

Joshua: 00:25:56

He was a reporter for over 25 years.

Joshua: 00:25:59

He runs his own storytelling business now, talking to people

Joshua: 00:26:03

and helping them to craft their own stories too, but I'm wondering, do

Joshua: 00:26:08

you see it as being more divisive?

Joshua: 00:26:11

Do you see it as being more inclusive?

Joshua: 00:26:13

Do you see it as we're not getting to be heard?

Joshua: 00:26:17

Not only from what you've done personally as being a candidate, but just combining

Joshua: 00:26:21

all the things as being a radio show host, a Toastmaster, what's your take

Joshua: 00:26:26

on it and do you think that we can get back to some sort of discourse, if there

Joshua: 00:26:31

has to be any sort of change of that?

Ken: 00:26:33

Absolutely, and I can get into details on that.

Ken: 00:26:37

If I didn't see the progress, I wouldn't be doing this, but we Libertarians,

Ken: 00:26:41

we were founded in 1971, and we are the third largest party, hands down.

Ken: 00:26:46

We outnumber all the other third parties put together.

Ken: 00:26:49

We're still growing, and the community is coming together, the

Ken: 00:26:53

political community, because right now only about half the people are

Ken: 00:26:56

affiliated with one party or another.

Ken: 00:26:58

All the rest are independents, they're libertarians, maybe they're greens

Ken: 00:27:01

or whatever, so I could see that the shift that's going on, and I'm going

Ken: 00:27:06

to be recording a show later this week that's going to have the thing that is

Ken: 00:27:10

going to change how everything is done.

Ken: 00:27:14

The problem with our political set up is the way that we vote, because

Ken: 00:27:19

when you go to vote, all you can do is say, "I like this person."

Ken: 00:27:23

Odds are you don't like that person.

Ken: 00:27:24

Odds are you're picking a least of two evils.

Ken: 00:27:28

Pew Charitable Trust did a study, and they found that more than half the people

Ken: 00:27:33

didn't like either Trump or Hillary.

Ken: 00:27:36

Right?

Ken: 00:27:37

What's missing, not just a button to say, "I like this person.

Ken: 00:27:41

I vote for this person.", because when they see that

Ken: 00:27:43

vote, they think, "they love me.

Ken: 00:27:45

They love everything about me.

Ken: 00:27:47

They love...", I'm saying it's not the case.

Ken: 00:27:48

They don't see you holding your nose when you're pushing that button.

Ken: 00:27:52

What's missing is a button to say, I disapprove of this candidate.

Ken: 00:27:57

There's a system.

Ken: 00:27:58

Roy Minet is a retired physicist who came up with a setup and he was telling

Ken: 00:28:03

us, he had him on the show talking about this, but what you do is he's

Ken: 00:28:06

called " approved disapprove voting".

Ken: 00:28:09

You could vote for two and they get a plus one and a plus one, and you could vote.

Ken: 00:28:14

For one, you disapprove and they get a minus one, and you add up all the numbers

Ken: 00:28:18

and the one with the high score wins.

Ken: 00:28:20

You can say, "I don't like this Trump guy, I don't like this Hillary guy,

Ken: 00:28:23

I don't like this libertarian guy," and you can actually lower their

Ken: 00:28:27

score and if their score goes below zero, they're kicked out of the race.

Joshua: 00:28:31

Hmm.

Ken: 00:28:32

Yeah.

Ken: 00:28:33

Now if we had that, something to measure how much you dislike somebody, we

Ken: 00:28:38

would not have had a President Trump.

Ken: 00:28:40

We would not have had a President Hillary.

Ken: 00:28:41

We would not have a President Biden; we'd have somebody else.

Joshua: 00:28:46

Yeah, and I would've never wanted anybody else except you

Joshua: 00:28:51

to be on this episode so that I could interview you, so there's no

Joshua: 00:28:54

disapproval, there's no approval.

Joshua: 00:28:57

It's just the fact that you are here, and I hope my audience got a lot

Joshua: 00:29:01

today out of not just what you have done in your rich career, which we

Joshua: 00:29:06

could easily talk about for hours upon hours, but I think that for you, Ken,

Joshua: 00:29:12

you, to my eyes, have represented a lot of people might been afraid to

Joshua: 00:29:18

step up and be able to be a voice.

Ken: 00:29:20

Mm-hmm.

Joshua: 00:29:21

And I think that you are doing that consistently.

Ken: 00:29:24

Yeah.

Joshua: 00:29:24

Time and time again, and I really appreciate you being here, sharing your

Joshua: 00:29:29

heart with us on Speaking From The Heart, and I thank you for your time today.

Ken: 00:29:33

Oh, I thank you for the opportunity, and you just tell people,

Ken: 00:29:36

for my governor race, kenk4pa.com.

Joshua: 00:29:39

Great.

Ken: 00:29:39

Just check out my stands; they all go back to the same thing.

Ken: 00:29:42

Your life, your way, as long as you respect others.

Ken: 00:29:44

It's the golden rule, and what else do we need in politics more than that, right?

Joshua: 00:29:49

I'll make sure that that's put in the show too, so that people

Joshua: 00:29:51

can check that out, and you're right, I think that we definitely need those

Joshua: 00:29:55

sort of rules so that it helps us out.

Joshua: 00:29:57

Ken, thank you again.

Joshua: 00:29:59

I appreciate it.

Ken: 00:30:00

Thank you, Joshua.

Ken: 00:30:01

I appreciate the opportunity and the chance and keep touching the heart.

" Joshua: 00:30:05

Going in one more round when you don't think you can.

" Joshua: 00:30:09

That's what makes all the difference in your life."

" Joshua: 00:30:13

That quote, which is from Rocky Balboa, really one of the most influential

" Joshua: 00:30:18

fictional characters made by Sylvester Stallone, has been one of many in which

" Joshua: 00:30:24

I aspire to, and it reminds me of the interview that we just heard between

" Joshua: 00:30:29

Ken and I in which has been one of the most colorful careers of anybody

" Joshua: 00:30:34

in which I've interviewed so far on Speaking From The Heart, and I really

" Joshua: 00:30:38

enjoyed our conversations being that Ken, being a radio show host, podcaster

" Joshua: 00:30:44

extraordinaire himself, he has been able to interact with people from all kinds

" Joshua: 00:30:50

of diverse, situational backgrounds in which all of us can learn important

" Joshua: 00:30:55

lessons about civil discourse and the importance of understanding and learning

" Joshua: 00:31:01

to provide not only opportunity for those people to have a voice, but to

" Joshua: 00:31:06

be able to respect and thoughtfully and articulately reply to such comments.

" Joshua: 00:31:14

I think that for many of us, we can often say the phrase, "I disapprove

" Joshua: 00:31:18

of this", and say that to anybody that is consistently not meeting our

" Joshua: 00:31:24

mantra, but I love Ken's viewpoint.

" Joshua: 00:31:28

I love the fact that he does challenge that.

" Joshua: 00:31:30

I known him personally to be able to do that and do it so well, that with

" Joshua: 00:31:36

such clarity and conviction makes me wish that I didn't have to edit

" Joshua: 00:31:40

these episodes down for filler words and things of that nature, because I

" Joshua: 00:31:46

struggle with being able to have that articulation even a decade later.

" Joshua: 00:31:51

You say what, Joshua?

" Joshua: 00:31:53

You say that, as a public speaking coach, you struggle with those things too?

" Joshua: 00:31:58

Absolutely, and that is what I'm willing to admit even on this show

" Joshua: 00:32:03

about the importance of being able to be open and having a conversation

" Joshua: 00:32:08

about the things that we can defeat the cycle on, and defeating that cycle

" Joshua: 00:32:13

is exactly what I think Ken has been out to challenge every single time.

" Joshua: 00:32:19

It's been very hard, even for some people, to be able to do that and in coaching,

" Joshua: 00:32:24

especially, one of the biggest obstacles that you have to work with when it comes

" Joshua: 00:32:28

to business owners, individuals that are trying to challenge ,themselves or even

" Joshua: 00:32:33

present on a topic of your choosing, is about thinking of how to diffuse

" Joshua: 00:32:40

those different viewpoints that are going through our minds and thinking

" Joshua: 00:32:44

about how we can overcome those people; how we can overcome those situations.

" Joshua: 00:32:51

I can say for most certainty that we probably would never think to run for

" Joshua: 00:32:55

the Vice Presidency of the United States on the Libertarian ticket, or maybe

" Joshua: 00:32:59

even have the political courage to step up and even be a commissioner, to be

" Joshua: 00:33:05

a representative, but, I know that I have some of those people listening to

" Joshua: 00:33:09

this podcast, and I have some helpful words for you, especially from what I've

" Joshua: 00:33:14

heard from today's interview with Ken.

" Joshua: 00:33:17

It's not just about the things that we say and do that create that opportunity.

" Joshua: 00:33:22

It's about how we take action; how are we able to consistently prove

" Joshua: 00:33:27

our value when we know that sometimes those obstacles are very challenging.

" Joshua: 00:33:33

It's easy to go into the stereotype of thinking, "no, I don't provide anything.

" Joshua: 00:33:39

I am no good to anyone", and that's simply not true.

" Joshua: 00:33:44

As a matter of fact, I have said that voice to myself for over 30 years,

" Joshua: 00:33:51

and here I am, conquering my imposter syndrome, and sometimes that is tough to

" Joshua: 00:33:58

say that you need to make that change to make that value happen in your life, but

" Joshua: 00:34:03

Ken was able to do that numerous times:, writing two books, being able to be a

" Joshua: 00:34:09

Toastmaster for over 9,000 days, to be able to say to all of us that, "yes, I

" Joshua: 00:34:16

learned some important lessons along the way, and I had to brush the dirt off my

" Joshua: 00:34:21

pants and get back up and keep going."

" Joshua: 00:34:26

Ken is one of those people that I have to say has helped me to see

" Joshua: 00:34:32

what the bigger picture is when it comes to professional development,

" Joshua: 00:34:36

leadership development specifically, and knowing that it doesn't matter

" Joshua: 00:34:42

what you have to say; it has to be well articulated, and it has to have context.

" Joshua: 00:34:49

Those are the two things that are really important so that we can have a

" Joshua: 00:34:53

thoughtful, considerable conversation amongst other people that we might have.

" Joshua: 00:35:00

Sometimes, even having that conversation is very tough in itself, but I think

" Joshua: 00:35:05

Ken demonstrated today that it could be really important for us if we can continue

" Joshua: 00:35:10

to push ourselves with competition.

" Joshua: 00:35:14

Being able to do it with double digit runs for all kinds of offices

" Joshua: 00:35:19

has certainly shown the value of what he's been able to achieve.

" Joshua: 00:35:24

It's been able to show him through his professional career as an IT administrator

" Joshua: 00:35:28

and also being able to build things that were mostly from scratch in a

" Joshua: 00:35:33

world that was rapidly advancing, that he, amongst others, can change the

" Joshua: 00:35:39

course of what our civilization has.

" Joshua: 00:35:44

We're not perfect.

" Joshua: 00:35:45

As a matter of fact, I have my own quote in which I think of all the

" Joshua: 00:35:50

time, which I've mentioned at least in one other episode, that my political

" Joshua: 00:35:53

science professor has mentioned to me time and time again when I went

" Joshua: 00:35:57

to school, and it's from Aristotle.

" Joshua: 00:36:00

Aristotle said that human beings, essentially, all of us, and

" Joshua: 00:36:05

I'm paraphrasing here, human beings are political animals.

" Joshua: 00:36:10

We all have civil discourse that we have that we want to be socially connected.

" Joshua: 00:36:17

We want to find our own way in which we want to establish our government.

" Joshua: 00:36:22

We all want to find ways in which we can participate, whether that is

" Joshua: 00:36:26

through volunteering or providing civil service, which I've had the

" Joshua: 00:36:31

fortunate opportunity to do at the state level for over a decade.

" Joshua: 00:36:36

I think Ken said it very well with one quote that he made towards

" Joshua: 00:36:40

the end of our interview, which he paraphrased, but I was able to look up.

" Joshua: 00:36:46

Plato once said that those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished

" Joshua: 00:36:50

by being governed by those who are dumber.

" Joshua: 00:36:54

Now, that's pretty darn rash, but Plato has some words of

" Joshua: 00:36:58

wisdom that are within that.

" Joshua: 00:37:01

Those who are too smart, we can be that smart.

" Joshua: 00:37:07

We have to be able to understand that we need to converse.

" Joshua: 00:37:14

We do need to share what we have.

" Joshua: 00:37:18

Ken didn't have to accept my invitation being that he has been so successful in

" Joshua: 00:37:23

many ways, and even if you want to say that he has lost, that, he was a big L O

" Joshua: 00:37:30

S E R; I'll let you spell that out and say it out loud on your own, but he wasn't.

" Joshua: 00:37:39

He wasn't at all, and that's what makes this really differing for

" Joshua: 00:37:44

many other characters that might come through in your life that want

" Joshua: 00:37:48

to tell you what the quote unquote business is that you need in your life.

" Joshua: 00:37:55

It's about being genuine.

" Joshua: 00:37:58

It's about seeing what's inside of your heart and unlocking that unlimited

" Joshua: 00:38:03

potential, knowing that you are going to make mistakes, but you can learn from

" Joshua: 00:38:08

them; that by the process of growing, by stepping aside fear, you can have

" Joshua: 00:38:16

what all things all have together, meaning we are capable of being some

" Joshua: 00:38:23

of the best versions of ourselves if we just stand out of our own way.

" Joshua: 00:38:29

That is what makes us all winners, in all political races, in all careers

" Joshua: 00:38:37

that we do, but more importantly, in how we give ourselves value.

" Joshua: 00:38:43

Thanks for listening to episode 16 of Speaking From the Heart,

" Joshua: 00:38:47

and I look forward to hearing from your heart very soon.

Outro: 00:38:51

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Outro: 00:38:52

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