Episode 165

Episode #160 - The Power Of Persistence: An Interview With Kelly Wilburn

Accomplishing your goals sometimes takes great persistence and learning from mistakes over and over again. Even if it means that you have keep going back and trying to figure out what occurred and diagnosing the issues, sometimes that does not mean that the problem will be solved right away. Finding your grit and determination to "see it through" can often be difficult when it has so many moving parts, and often incomplete information at your disposal. Today's guest, Kelly Wilburn, shares her story of her attempt to become a first generation law school graduate, and the enduring outcomes that she had achieved, particularly with the number of times it took to become a licensed attorney. Through her experiences, learn how you can channel your inner tenacity to achieve amazing things, even if they take a while to do, and reap the ultimate rewards that come from it.

Guest Bio

Kelly is 37 years old and is from Jacksonville, North Carolina. She is the product of 2 Marine parents, and the youngest of 5. She was the first to graduate from college in her family; go Wolfpack Class of 2008. She is also a first-generation law graduate, having graduated from Thomas M. Cooley Law School in 2012. By day, she is a practicing attorney. By night, she can be found at home cuddling with her cat, Smalls, dog, Duke, and hanging out with her boyfriend Josh. She enjoys being a member of Toastmasters International, focusing on communication and leadership skills development, and also playing the violin.

  • Toastmasters International -Home (https://www.toastmasters.org) - Toastmasters is an international organization that has allowed your podcast host to go through personal and professional connection, combining all kinds of different types of communication and leadership development. Learn more about this organization at the link provided, plus check out the "Find A Club" option where you can locate an in-person or virtual club closest to you and your likings!

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Intro/Outro By: Michael Dugan, Podcast Host: Voice4Chefs

Transcript
Intro:

Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

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determination all converge into

an amazing, heartfelt experience.

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This is Speaking From The Heart.

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Joshua: Welcome back to episode

number 160 of Speaking from the Heart.

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Today we have Kelly Wilburn.

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Kelly is 37 years old and lives

in Jacksonville, North Carolina.

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She is the product of two marine

parents, and the youngest of five.

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She was the first to graduate from

college in her family, being part

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of the Wolfpack class of 2008.

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She is also a first generation

law graduate, having

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graduated from the Thomas M.

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Cooley Law School in 2012.

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By day, she is a practicing attorney,

but by night, she can be found at

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home cuddling with her cat, Smalls,

her dog, Duke, and hanging out with

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her boyfriend, Josh, which has no

relation to me, and I feel like I have

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to set the record straight on that.

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It is a different Josh.

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She enjoys being a member of

Toastmasters International, focusing

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on communication and leadership skills

development, and also playing the violin.

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It's been a while since I've had a

Toastmaster on the show, and I thought I

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was way overdue after I met Kelly at one

of my local Toastmaster clubs in Ashburn,

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Virginia called Winners Circle, but what

turned into a fascinating encounter which

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happened on the official Toastmasters

International Facebook group, turned into

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an awesome conversation about growing

up with two older brothers, living in a

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chaotic world that really dragged out all

kinds of different voices, and all kinds

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of resources for her to assist, but also

discovering her own potential, created

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the standards that she now lives by today.

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I think what you will find with this

conversation is a mixture of different

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positive and negative aspects, but that

every time that we go through life,

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even if we have to do it once, twice,

three times, even twelve times, which

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you'll find out how that number relates

to the bigger scheme of things, has

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really created this opportunity that we

should not be holding ourselves back.

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We can fail, but we are not

a product of that failure.

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We have all the opportunity presented

to us if we're just willing to create

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that dynamic in our own lives, and

I think you'll find, that in Kelly's

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story today, it is definitely about

not only that perspective, but having

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that tenacity to keep moving forward.

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But with that, let's go to the episode.

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All right, we're here with Kelly Wilburn.

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Kelly, thanks for sharing

your heart with us today.

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Kelly: Thank you very much for having me.

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Joshua: Yeah, absolutely, and I have to

say, thanks to the world of Toastmasters,

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I have another guest on the show that's

willing to share their story, and

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Kelly, I'm really excited about our

conversation that we're going to have

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today, just because of some of the

things that we've already personally

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interacted with outside of even this

show, for that matter, but I want to

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dig into something that you mentioned

that I've already introduced you about.

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It's interesting to me when I have

people on the show that have been raised

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in a military family, or have served

in the military for that matter, but I

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noticed that your parents were part of

the Marine Corps, so I'm wondering if

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you could talk a little bit about your

upbringing being with two Marine parents.

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I think that has to be not only

fascinating, but maybe strict?

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Maybe you can dispel that for me.

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Kelly: Sure.

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Yes, my mom and my dad both served

proudly in the Marine Corps.

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I grew up Camp Lejeune,

Jacksonville, North Carolina.

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It was a blend of strict, but also

loving, caring, just anything you want to

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describe for two very structured Marines.

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They offered the discipline.

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They offered the nurturing,

and that's how I developed into

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the person that I am today.

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Although I'm not a military brat,

because we actually didn't move around,

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I can say that it was an interesting

experience just growing up in that type

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of environment with people that did

float in and out, and me being able to

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take in Jacksonville, North Carolina.

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Joshua: How was it to be

the youngest of five though?

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Did you have more brothers than sisters?

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Were they all sisters?

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What was that dynamic, if you

can talk about that for us.

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Kelly: Yes, I am the youngest, and I grew

up with my two brothers, Lee and John,

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because my oldest siblings were of the

age where they were too old to grow up

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with basically, because my oldest siblings

were at least 13 years older than me, so

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I really only grew up with two siblings

in the home with me, but yes, they were

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both boys, and I was the youngest girl.

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Joshua: How was that

dynamic to be the only girl?

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Was it difficult?

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Was it easy?

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Was it something in between?

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Kelly: They like to say I was spoiled.

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I like to say I earned

my keep, if you will.

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Joshua: I can understand that.

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I feel like I earned my keep being

the youngest of three, and yet, I

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was the only male child my parents

had, so I can understand that.

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Kelly, I find this interesting

that after you grew up, you went to

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college, then you went to law school.

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You graduated in 2012.

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I'm curious, what was the aspect that

led you into not only going to law

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school, but what was it that really

pushed you into that direction?

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Kelly: The show Law and Order.

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No, I'm actually very much kidding.

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My mom loves the show, but really it

was a matter of I had a major in women's

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and gender studies at North Carolina

State University, and I wanted to make a

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difference somehow, some way, in the legal

profession involving women and children.

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How that was going to happen, ideally

it would have been prosecution, and

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that's not where I'm at yet in my

career, however, that was why I went

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to law school is to figure out how to

make a difference in the legal field.

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Joshua: When you say "make a difference",

what was some of the things that

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were running through your mind, or

even today, running through your

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mind, that you want to try to help?

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Kelly: It just seems to me that the world

is chaotic, and I think it always will be,

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but you just have to know who you are as a

person in order to relate to your clients,

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and everybody deserves representation.

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Joshua: Yeah, and you know, in

Pennsylvania, I actually read this more

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recently within the last several months

that we actually are terrible in our

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state about having defense lawyers being

able to defend clients that don't have

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the ability, or the resources, to be

able to do that, so I'm wondering, do

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you find that when you have potential

clients, and I know we're probably jumping

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way ahead, but it just kind of stuck

in my mind when you brought that up.

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Is there something in particular that

you feel that the criminal justice

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system can do, whether it's for the

prosecution, whether it's for the defense?

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Although I believe in rule of law, and

being able to carry out justice when

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it's appropriate, do you think there's

a better way to help not only uphold

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the traditions that we have in America?

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We've have a law system that I think

tries to strive for fair impartiality,

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accountability, things of that nature.

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What do you feel about things

that need to be changed if

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you have any opinion on that?

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Kelly: I think, overall, and this is

just very broad, but overall, resources,

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whether that be for the state, or

even for defendants, because for the

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state, there is a lack of funding

for district attorneys, meaning that

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cases can be dragged out for years

at a time because there's not enough

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DAs to prosecute the cases, so the

victims aren't getting their voices

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heard, and then for defendants, public

defenders: there's not enough of them.

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There's not enough of a pay scale for

people that want to volunteer to do that.

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It's just a lack of resources all

around, and it's just hard for the

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prosecution, hard for the defense, and

I wish that there was a way to fix that.

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Joshua: Yeah.

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It takes more than just one person to

be able to change a lot of the different

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circumstances that are involved with

that type of subject matter, too, but I

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have to back up a bit because there's a

bigger part of your journey of actually

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becoming an attorney, if you will, and I'm

wondering if you could share a little bit

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about your experiences, maybe during law

school that you've experienced, and even

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afterwards, which I know we were talking a

little bit before the show about what that

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is that you've been through, and I don't

want to spoil it, so, it's your story.

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I wonder if you could share

that with our audience.

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Kelly: Sure.

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After I graduated from NC State, I

took a gap year and I interned at the

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prosecutor's office in my hometown, and

that was a wonderful experience, and

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they encouraged me to go to law school.

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I unfortunately wasn't accepted into

any in-state schools, but I did apply

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to an out-of-state school, so I had to

pick up from North Carolina, and move

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to Michigan to go to Thomas Cooley

Law School, which is actually a school

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that accepts quite a few people which

is wonderful for me, but they saw the

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potential in me, because I did not have

a high admissions test score, and so that

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put me, I guess, at the lower tier of

admittees for schools, but once I got to

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law school, I had to work just as hard

as everybody else, because even though

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Cooley admits a lot of students, it's hard

to stay there, and that's their standard.

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They have a high standard for what you

have to do as a student in order to pass

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and graduate, and in law school, I found

that it was a struggle, because there's

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one exam for each class; maybe not in

electives per se, but generally speaking,

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there's one exam in each class, and that

determines your whole grade, and I knew

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right off the bat it would be a struggle,

because even in orientation, they had us

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do a basic reading comprehension test,

and I didn't do well, so I went to the

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academic resource center and I said, "Hey!

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I didn't do well.

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What can I do?", and they said, "Well,

we were going to call you in, and let

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you know that you didn't do well, and

try and help you figure this out.",

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and then they told me I should go get

tested by a local psychologist to see

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if there's something bigger than just

test anxiety, so that's what I did.

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I went to a local psychologist, and

the local psychologist did a few

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tests, but their ultimate diagnosis was

test anxiety, and unfortunately, test

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anxiety doesn't get you accommodations

for these exams, and one exam, again,

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determines your entire grade, so it

was a struggle for me in law school to

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maintain a good GPA, because one grade

is everything, and I wasn't finishing

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my exams, and I was having a tough

time, but that's how law school went.

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I mean, it was great in terms of being

able to learn and grow as a person.

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Having moved from North Carolina, I was

this Southern girl who was thrown into

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this Armageddon of snow, and I had to

find my way and it was just difficult.

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I had no family, but I made several

friends, and I made my way in law

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school, and it was a great experience,

but it was a struggle, for sure, to

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really figure out how to pass, for one

thing, but getting through law school

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was a struggle, and I wasn't sure why.

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Joshua: Obviously, you made

it through and you graduated.

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How did you make it past the test

anxiety that you had, given the

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fact that the medical profession

didn't really support you in it,

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so how'd you navigate through that?

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Kelly: I never got over my test anxiety.

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I was always afraid of tests, because

I went into these tests thinking,

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"One grade determines everything.

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If you don't pass, then you're not

going to pass this class, and you're not

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going to pass law school.", but again,

I had friends who were there for me.

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I had study groups, and we always went

in there as prepared as we could, so

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even then, I knew that I might not

finish, but I was as prepared as I

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could be, and that's the best I could

do, and that's how I got through it,

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really, was friend support, study groups,

and just the determination that no

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matter what, I was going to graduate.

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Joshua: For me, the last time I walked

in a college classroom was about over

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a decade ago, and that doesn't mean

that my journey is not over myself.

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I have aspirations that at some point when

I'm really successful with this business,

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which I will be, along with my career with

the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, which

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we've talked about before, too, of what

I've been able to achieve through that.

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I know that I'm going to go back

and get my PhD, and achieve even

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higher things for that matter.

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My journey is never ending for

that matter, but I always look

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back sometimes and think, "Wow!

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That was a struggle back then, but

it's not so much a struggle now."

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Have you been able to overcome things,

even in the past decade, doing what

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you've been doing and practicing law,

that might be helpful to people that are

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listening to this, maybe are thinking

about going to law school, or they know

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somebody that is going to law school?

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What do you think you've

learned after going through that

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experience and looking back now?

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Kelly: It's one thing to take

one test and not do well.

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It's another thing to take a few tests

and not do well, and not understand what's

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going on, and just thinking that it's you.

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It's nothing you can do, and so you

go into each test knowing that it

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might not turn out the way you'd like,

but all you can do is positivity.

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I had issues with that a lot.

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I had a lot of self doubt, and I just

kept thinking, "I'm not as good as

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everybody else.", because everybody

else is doing that much better than me.

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I couldn't figure out why I was struggling

so much, and everybody else seemed to

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be doing that much better than me, no

matter how hard I was trying, but I also

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had that element of negativity, where the

positive wouldn't outweigh the negative,

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so I had to learn over the years that

the more negative I am, the less positive

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results I'm going to get, and I feel

like that's advice I could give incoming

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students who may not do well on their

first couple of exams in law school, or

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any profession for that matter, because

if you go into it thinking you might

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not do well, or if you didn't do well,

and that's who you define yourself as,

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it's going to continue that pattern.

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Joshua: Yeah.

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I think we could be self defeating

in that in so many different ways,

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so I have to ask this question now,

because I'm kind of curious myself.

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If you were trying really hard, you

made it through school, obviously,

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there's a test that you have to take,

which is the certification to become

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a practicing attorney in the state.

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How well did you do with that then?

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Kelly: So when I graduated in 2012, it was

always my intent to pass the bar exam in

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July, and practice law in North Carolina.

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Well, the very first time I took it in

July of:

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prepping, because usually what happens

is after you graduate, you start prepping

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for this exam, so you spend eight hours

a day studying seven days a week, six

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days a week, what have you, with a

prep course in order to do well on this

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exam in July, so that's what I did.

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I had done everything right, and then

on the day of the test, which it was at

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the North Carolina Fairgrounds at the

time, a huge storm rolled in, and the

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power went out, so that was one thing,

and then there's also a mouse running

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around, so that was another thing.

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There were quite a few distractions, and

again, I just wasn't going to finish.

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I was trying my hardest.

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I wasn't going to finish, but I did

my best, and there was a huge curve,

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given the circumstances of that exam,

but I didn't pass that July exam.

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I found out at the end of August, because,

North Carolina, they actually get you

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your results back pretty quick, contrary

to some other states, but yeah, I knew at

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the end of August once I got my letter,

nately, that I didn't pass in:

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and the bar exam is offered twice a year.

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It's offered in February and July.

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When I got that letter, I had to kind of

digest, and I cried a lot, obviously, and

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I ranted and raved to family and friends,

and they were there for me saying, "Okay.

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It's fine.

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You got this.

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You can do it.

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We know you can do it.", and

with their encouragement, I

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applied for the February exam.

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Well, it wasn't exactly that

simple in February either.

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The process was the same.

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You have to do another application.

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You have to pay more money and you have

to study eight hours a day to re prep,

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but February of 2013, I still didn't

pass, but I applied for the July exam

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and tried in July, and I didn't pass, and

it sucks that it's only offered twice a

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year, but every time it was offered, I

applied, or at least for the most part.

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Life happens, so I didn't take

it every single time, but the

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tally ended up being 12 total.

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Joshua: You took it 12 times

before you were able to then pass?

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Kelly: Yes.

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Joshua: Wow.

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When you were getting these rejections

because you didn't pass- let's

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back up and say this, at least.

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I don't know if I would have had

the tenacity to be able to try 12

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times to be able to pass, and I

don't know, for some of my listeners,

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I think that that's a big number.

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That's almost a baker's dozen, okay?

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That's quite a lot.

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For you, when you were getting

these rejections over and over

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because of not being able to pass,

wasn't your confidence shaken?

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I mean, wouldn't you feel like

down in depression about it?

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Tell me a little bit about when you

were feeling those sort of things

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that you were experiencing every time

that you went through that, and what

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I'm really more curious about, after

you explained that then, is what made

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you keep on wanting to push forward?

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There had to be something, Kelly.

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They're really has to.

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For some people, I think they would have

just gave up, but you didn't, so why?

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Kelly: Because I'm stubborn.

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Joshua: Well, that could be part of

it too, and that's even for myself, my

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German heritage, would tell me, "Yes!

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I am very stubborn."

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Some of my friends would attest to

that, but I can understand that.

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Kelly: Yeah, it was a mixture of

stubborn, and just unfinished business.

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I always had it in my head that I was

going to pass, and I would pass, and I

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didn't spend three years in law school

to not pass, and I couldn't give up,

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and it wasn't in my blood to give up.

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I mean, my mom, she's a Marine.

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She ran PFTs while pregnant.

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I had such an example in my life

that I knew I had to keep going.

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If she can be in this profession

as a Marine, I can be in this

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profession as a female attorney,

and just make my way in this world,

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and I could not give up on that.

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I spent so much time, and money, and I

just had the drive to keep going, because

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I couldn't see myself not practicing

law, because that was my ultimate goal.

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I had to.

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Yes.

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All of those rejections

made me extremely upset.

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I cried a river like none other.

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I mean, Noah's Ark could have

been reinvented for all the tears

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that I cried because it hurts.

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It hurts.

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Rejection, after

rejection, after rejection.

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It builds inside of you; that negativity

builds, and so the more I went into it,

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the more I kept thinking I would fail,

and that's kind of where that came in

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is I had the preset mindset that because

I failed before I would fail again.

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I don't think I went into any

exam, except my final one, that I

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took, thinking that I would pass,

because I had failed so many times.

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I called myself a failure, but deep

down, I knew I wasn't a failure.

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I was failing, but it wasn't a failure,

and there had to be some sort of

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reason as to why, and just the more

I took it, the more I realized that

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there was a few issues that needed

to come to light, and I wasn't going

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to quit until I figured it out.

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Joshua: You said something there that I

think really resonates, and I even say

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to my clients too, is that you could have

this one individual, tiny, miniscule type

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of situation that you could say, "You

failed.", but that doesn't define the

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overall picture, the overall life that

we live, which is you're not a failure.

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You're not a failure whatsoever,

especially hearing what your mom, and

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even your family upbringing, really

contributed to help you keep pushing

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forward, that's really incredible.

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I loved hearing that, because I think

for some people, they would have just

326

:

gave up, but maybe it was stubbornness.

327

:

Maybe it was something else, but

you push those emotions away,

328

:

even after you experienced them.

329

:

You felt them, which is

something I even say.

330

:

You have to embrace it.

331

:

You have to feel comfortable about

it, so that, even after all that,

332

:

you keep moving that conversation,

that keep moving that piece forward,

333

:

which it leads me into really asking

you the crux of all this too that I

334

:

think really is a contributing factor.

335

:

You're a member of Toastmasters, and

for my longtime listeners, a lot of my

336

:

guests starting out on this show were

from Toastmasters, and I love talking to

337

:

people that are from Toastmasters that

have a membership, and they continue

338

:

to grow, and if you're a new listener,

I'm going to put in the episode notes

339

:

some information about Toastmasters.

340

:

Go check out a club local to you, whether

it's virtual, whether it's in person;

341

:

regardless of what it is, you can build

relationships, build some confidence

342

:

in your public speaking, and even

leadership, but Kelly, now that I've done

343

:

my sales pitch with Toastmasters, which

I haven't done in quite a while, you are

344

:

a member, and I'm sure it helps you so

much with your professional development,

345

:

being able to practice communication

skills with other Toastmasters, other

346

:

like minded individuals that are

trying to self improve themselves.

347

:

What would you say has been something

that has helped you with practicing

348

:

law, and has even helped you for

that matter working with clients,

349

:

that you could attest to that has

made you a lot stronger because of

350

:

being part of this organization?

351

:

Kelly: I'm really young still

to being a practicing attorney.

352

:

I'm only in my third year and the club

I'm a part of, the in person club,

353

:

which now virtual since I moved, but

the speeches I am giving, a lot of

354

:

them relate to what I've gone through

as a practicing attorney, and I like

355

:

to be able to tell that story, because

I have stories to tell as far as

356

:

learning, and figuring out my way as an

attorney, and they're there to listen.

357

:

I like crafting the speeches, and I

like getting those evaluations too,

358

:

because they provide this perspective

that I might not be able to see either,

359

:

and I like the fact that it's positive

reinforcement to those professional

360

:

career development goals, and just

being able to be in a group of like

361

:

minded people, just like you said, that

can provide that positive criticism so

362

:

that you can learn and grow from that.

363

:

Joshua: Has there been someone in

your club, or maybe even outside the

364

:

club, that you've been able to form

a connection with that has helped you

365

:

to continue growing in that journey?

366

:

Maybe they've served as a mentor for you.

367

:

If so, feel free to shout them out

if you like, and even give a reason

368

:

as to why they have helped you.

369

:

Kelly: Definitely.

370

:

My mentor is Virginia Sharp Marp.

371

:

She and I would get together for coffee

once a week, and she would sit me down,

372

:

and see how I was feeling and she would

ask about work, she would ask about

373

:

outside activities, and relate to me on my

level, and she would give me speech ideas

374

:

and she would just turn my negative into

positive also, because I was learning a

375

:

lot, and it was hard to absorb a lot of

that as a new attorney, but she was right

376

:

there with me the whole step of the way.

377

:

I had questions.

378

:

She had answers, and she just pushed

me forward, and propelled me further

379

:

than I could even imagine in just

my short three years of practice.

380

:

Joshua: When you say that

she's helped propelled you, do

381

:

you mean in a certain aspect?

382

:

Do you mean in a way in which it

helps you with your confidence?

383

:

I wonder if you can elaborate on that.

384

:

Kelly: Absolutely the confidence, because

a lot of the times I'd like to say I'm

385

:

confident, but it can kind of show if

I'm not, and Virginia is blunt, and

386

:

she will lay it on the table and say,

"This is what I'm getting from you, and

387

:

your vibe, and this is what I think is

something that we can work on.", and she

388

:

and I would work on positive mantras so

that I could build my confidence even

389

:

more, because I would tell her, "Oh!

390

:

I had such a low day.

391

:

Is this something that I should be

doing?", and she said, "Absolutely.

392

:

You worked so hard to get there,

and you're a testament to the

393

:

people in your field, and how you

can work best for your clients, and

394

:

just keep that up.", like, she was

always the positive to my negative.

395

:

Joshua: It's almost like the

ying to that yang, if you will.

396

:

Kelly: Definitely.

397

:

Joshua: Sometimes we need that, and I'm

wondering, as you were going through

398

:

all these different things in your

life that have really put you into

399

:

this position of, "If I stop now, I'm

not going to have this opportunity."

400

:

Is there a message in that, that you

feel that our listeners should grab from

401

:

that as they hear this conversation from

you today, because not only do you have

402

:

somebody that's helping you currently

with helping with your confidence and

403

:

giving you those skills, but you've talked

about the will set, the perseverance,

404

:

of pushing forward no matter what.

405

:

I know I'm probably stealing some

of that, because I'm like thinking,

406

:

"Wow, those are some great topics in

itself.", but yeah, I'm wondering.

407

:

What does that mean for you?

408

:

If there was something that my listeners

can take from you, from what they

409

:

have heard thus far, what would it be?

410

:

Kelly: Self doubt can be such a killer.

411

:

If you doubt yourself, how is

anybody going to believe in you?

412

:

You have to take it upon yourself to

realize everything you can offer this

413

:

world and show it off to the world,

because again, if you don't see it,

414

:

nobody else will see it, and you have

to project, even if it's just a moment

415

:

in time where you're just not feeling

it, you can pretend like you are, and

416

:

then other people will jump on that

ship with you, and with my journey, the

417

:

self doubt was real just every single

time I failed, and I wanted to quit.

418

:

I really, really did, but I had

that strong support system, and

419

:

honestly, times got rough too.

420

:

My mom and dad, they ended

up both passing away.

421

:

My mom died in 2018, and my dad died

in:

422

:

supporters, aside from my brother,

and I wanted to know, why should I

423

:

keep going if they won't see me pass?

424

:

Why?

425

:

Why would I continue on this journey if

my biggest supporters won't see me pass?

426

:

It was the self doubt.

427

:

It really was.

428

:

I was telling myself there's no point

anymore, but, having been raised by two

429

:

Marines, and having my brother there,

I needed to push past that self doubt,

430

:

and I realized that there was more to

it than just failing, and so, I had to

431

:

find a solution and that's what I ended

up doing, and once I figured out why I

432

:

was failing, then I ended up passing.

433

:

Joshua: Yeah, and when we find that

key that helps to unlock what that is

434

:

inside of ourselves, maybe the things

that are self doubt, maybe for me,

435

:

and I've shared a little bit about

this before with you, Kelly, it was

436

:

really about my perseverance, even

when I felt like the world was crushing

437

:

down around me, and trying to take

everything away from me, I realized

438

:

that part of it is it wasn't the world.

439

:

It could be other people for sure,

but if you let them get the power

440

:

over you, I think that you're

never going to be able to do that.

441

:

You're never going to be able to overcome,

and I realized that, a year after I

442

:

tried to end my life, I sat around,

still in COVID lockdown, and I realized

443

:

that if I'm ever going to make a big

difference, I need to pick it up myself,

444

:

and ironically enough, with my long

term Toastmasters career, that's where I

445

:

picked it up too, is to go back into this

organization, so I loved the similarities

446

:

that we're talking about here.

447

:

Kelly, I want to give you one last

question here to wrap us up today, because

448

:

this has really been a great story to

hear from you about not only the power

449

:

of just keeping the commitment, keeping

the ability to not only know who you

450

:

are, but what your strength is, but if

there was one word that would describe

451

:

who you are that you want everybody to

know what you represent and what you

452

:

really are, and I know it's just one word,

so you got to sum her up in one word,

453

:

almost like a Table Topic that we do,

which for my listeners, is an impromptu

454

:

portion of our Toastmaster meetings.

455

:

What is that one word that

would describe you and why?

456

:

Kelly: If it's a Table Topic, it's

supposed to be one to two minutes.

457

:

Joshua: Well, we're going to

keep it shorter than that.

458

:

Kelly: One word to describe

me, I think would be tenacious,

459

:

because challenges are my thing.

460

:

If it seems like it can't be overcome

at this point, because I've passed

461

:

the bar, I know it can, and just

in general, I want to elaborate

462

:

just to the listeners real quick.

463

:

The one thing that was keeping me from

passing was a learning disability that

464

:

I was finally diagnosed with, so when I

got those accommodations, I passed, and

465

:

I was tenacious enough to go after it.

466

:

Joshua: Knowing what your disability

is, which I had one guest way back

467

:

in the very beginning tell me it's

about being differently enabled.

468

:

That's what the key is, is to be

able to unlock your differently

469

:

enabledness, to be able to pass because

we all have that equal opportunity,

470

:

but I'm glad you're tenacious.

471

:

I'm glad that you not only had the

opportunity to share your story today,

472

:

Kelly, but for you to be able to say that

you're a practicing attorney, despite

473

:

all the things that you have, trust me.

474

:

There are people looking at you and

watching you, even your mom and dad

475

:

for that matter, and for all those

reasons, Kelly, thanks so much for

476

:

being on Speaking From the Heart today.

477

:

Thanks for sharing this conversation

with me, and my listeners.

478

:

It was really a joy and an

honor to talk to you today.

479

:

Kelly: As it was for me too.

480

:

Thank you.

481

:

Joshua: I want to thank Kelly again

so much for being part of the show,

482

:

also sharing her story, giving me

something a little bit different to

483

:

talk about today, for sure, because

I know that for my listeners here,

484

:

we've heard a lot of different coaches.

485

:

We have a lot of different types

of opportunities to be able

486

:

to explore different concepts.

487

:

It's refreshing, sometimes, just to hear a

little bit of a story, just like Kelly's,

488

:

but I think that we learned a lot, even

from this, from a perspective that me,

489

:

as the coach this time, turning it over,

might want to be able to share a couple

490

:

things with you, so let's go through it,

because I think that we have to learn,

491

:

not only how we build structure in life,

but how we can develop those opportunities

492

:

around that structure to be able to

help us get to where we need to be.

493

:

I mean, imagine this that you are

the first person in your family to

494

:

graduate from different types of

schools to be able to then set the

495

:

tone, the direction, for all the

opportunities that happen thereafter.

496

:

Sure!

497

:

Other people might have already stepped

through it, and already had achieved

498

:

much success, but to know that Kelly's

story really resonates with this,

499

:

even in this world that we live in, I

think it's really beautiful to be able

500

:

to have somebody that grew up with

all these different opportunities,

501

:

all these different options, and she

was able to take advantage of it.

502

:

Kudos to you, Kelly, for being

able to do that, but even then, you

503

:

have to have those opportunities.

504

:

You have to have all those different

options available to you, and sometimes

505

:

living in this world that's chaotic,

especially if you're a military brat,

506

:

can also have all kinds of different

ways in which you're being manipulated.

507

:

You might be told to do this.

508

:

You might be told to do that.

509

:

Hearing ourselves even speak out loud

as to the opportunities that we can

510

:

have, to be able to hear our voices,

to find the resources and assistance,

511

:

can be also very temperamental.

512

:

It can put us into this staggering

pattern of always trying to strive to

513

:

be better, to be figuring out what is

it that we need to be doing in order for

514

:

that opportunity of a lifetime to occur.

515

:

Really, it begs the question, who

really saw the potential in you, and

516

:

I think that we heard a lot of that

in Kelly's story, that it's about

517

:

finding within ourselves what that

opportunity is, but allowing others to

518

:

see that we should be given a chance.

519

:

We should be not living towards a standard

that only dictates by a certain grade

520

:

whether we stay in or stay out of it.

521

:

I think that we've even learning and

evolving as a society that sometimes

522

:

grades, whether we're getting a letter

A, B, C, even D, don't always dictate

523

:

that we're doing the things that we

should be doing in a correct manner.

524

:

Of course we should be assessing

whether somebody is capable, but do

525

:

we need to use the grading system?

526

:

Does it mean that we have to be

determined by one set, one standard, in

527

:

which we're able to have that ultimate

achievement, because if that was the

528

:

case, I probably wouldn't be here today.

529

:

I wouldn't be able to share a

lot of my story, and even then,

530

:

would I want to be dictated by a

certain review of just one person?

531

:

Couldn't it be that maybe I just wasn't

a good fit for that person, and that

532

:

there are other opportunities out there

to engage, to feel like we're connected,

533

:

but I think that we learn the lesson

of life by just approaching it in a way

534

:

that, even with a grade that's given

to us, it's about how we respond to it;

535

:

how we actually move forward, that makes

all the difference, and I think that the

536

:

positive aspect of this is being able to

know what the difference is if we're just

537

:

willing to see that even if we are able

to approach things in a very different

538

:

way, in a way that we normally don't

approach things, we don't necessarily

539

:

have to approach them in a negative way.

540

:

You might not succeed once, you might

not succeed twice, three times, but

541

:

twelve times to be able to do something?

542

:

That takes guts!

543

:

That takes persistence, and those are

the examples that show you that the

544

:

human condition, the way in which we are

able to give direction and clarity, and

545

:

the things that we oftentimes are set

back on, really move us forward, so what

546

:

really holds you back then is really an

antithesis question, and it's a question

547

:

that we've asked repeatedly with other

coaches, with other people that we've

548

:

had, business owners for that matter.

549

:

I go back to several of my guests

in which I talk about why it was so

550

:

important for them to overcome that

stigma; that thing that was really

551

:

holding us back from really seeing the

true version of ourselves, and that's

552

:

really why I dig into it on this show.

553

:

It's why it's so important, because

each of our stories are different,

554

:

every single time that we go through it.

555

:

Even though that we have people that

come from all different walks of life,

556

:

we have to be respectful of the fact that

even if we fail, we are not a failure.

557

:

It doesn't mean that we get held back

by that emotion, by that persecution

558

:

that we're giving ourselves.

559

:

I think Kelly's story today really

exemplifies how we can lift that

560

:

layer of our life from where

it is now up to the next level.

561

:

Like minded people though, the people that

we surround ourselves with, being able

562

:

to find those opportunities to develop

ourselves, means that we have to create

563

:

that inner circle, and it's something

that I've even have mentioned to some

564

:

of my clients recently, which I'll be

even talking about more, on some future

565

:

monologue episodes, about the ways in

which we can create those opportunities

566

:

just by looking at ourselves.

567

:

What is it that we have in terms of sphere

of influence, and our inner circle, so I'm

568

:

excited to talk about those things with

you, but I don't want to spill the beans

569

:

now, but I will spill the beans on this.

570

:

If you take everything that you have,

and you show it off, it means that you

571

:

are essentially helping yourself to see

what kind of confidence that you have,

572

:

the ability to be able to overcome,

and it all means that we have to have

573

:

this process, whether it's through

cognitive means, whether it's through

574

:

talk therapy, whether it's through

some other activity that we engage in.

575

:

If we're able to say that we have this

ability to do something, that means that

576

:

we're really digging ourselves into our

ground, and saying that we are experts

577

:

beyond any kind of expert that we've seen

ourselves be before, and I think that's

578

:

where the beauty of true growth becomes.

579

:

That's where the true beauty of growth

begins, because I know how it is to

580

:

sometimes grow up in a world, especially

when you don't feel supported by

581

:

everybody, that really makes you kind of

question, "Should I really be doing this?

582

:

Is it really worth my time?

583

:

Is it really getting me

to where I need to go?"

584

:

I can't answer that for you today.

585

:

I know that it's so easy for me to try to

start answering that question, but if I

586

:

tried to, that would be really answering

my own point of view; my own perspective,

587

:

and that's something that even I have

wrestled with, because when we live in

588

:

this world that's kind of chaotic, and

it drags things out way longer than it

589

:

should be, when we're trying to figure

out how we can grow up with all these

590

:

kinds of opportunities that we have at

our disposal, if we're able to figure

591

:

out what kind of potential that we

have, those are the kind of questions

592

:

that really start to move us in the

direction that we really need to be going.

593

:

We need to stop struggling with the

fact that even though we have all these

594

:

standards, all these things that were

being set up, those are the things

595

:

that are often times the benchmarks.

596

:

They're making sure that there's

some sort of accountability.

597

:

It doesn't mean that you stop.

598

:

It just means that you keep applying.

599

:

You keep working on yourself.

600

:

You change the messaging of, "I can't do

it.", to that, "I can always find ways of

601

:

improving.", and it's weird that as I say

that, I'm reading a chart that I recently

602

:

got in the mail that I ordered from this

company called Displate, which I'm not

603

:

being sponsored by the company by any

means, but if you go to www.displate.com,

604

:

it's metal posters that you can order.

605

:

When you order these metal posters,

there's all kinds of different

606

:

options, whether you have Marvel

characters, whether you have famous

607

:

quotes from movies, regardless of

what it is, you can have any type

608

:

of image, and be able to paste it

on your wall, and put it somewhere.

609

:

I just recently put this poster up

about how you can change your words

610

:

from a fixed mindset to a growth

mindset, and I just read one of those

611

:

things off for you that really makes

me start to think that it isn't about

612

:

the standards that are being set.

613

:

It's about what we encounter as

the standards of what other people

614

:

have set, and how we respond to

them makes all the difference.

615

:

It's so easy in this world to get

trapped in all the negativity, all the

616

:

different types of discussions that

are happening on social media, all the

617

:

different things that are happening

that are sensationalized by negative

618

:

coverage of the news, but when we

actually start to dig deeper than that

619

:

and actually explore what the potential

possibilities are of what our lives can

620

:

be surrounded with, what we can create,

it starts to really challenge the status

621

:

quo of what it really means to create

opportunities; what it really means

622

:

to show yourself off; what it really

means, in one word, being tenacious that

623

:

really holds us from not just becoming

the best versions of ourselves, but how

624

:

we can break free of being held back.

625

:

It doesn't have to be dictated by a grade.

626

:

You heard it in Kelly's story today.

627

:

It really wasn't!

628

:

It was actually something quite different,

and I think that you need to learn, just

629

:

like how I need to learn, what it means

to be able to keep on persevering, to

630

:

keep moving yourself in a direction that

unifies not only what you want to work on,

631

:

but what your future self wants to become.

632

:

Some people take the wrong path:

drugs, alcohol, sexual abuse.

633

:

Sometimes they succumb to all those

weaknesses, and that's something that

634

:

even as a human condition, we have

to address, but on this show, we have

635

:

featured success stories every single

time, of the people, the places, the

636

:

things that have been done, and how those

people have overcome adversity, and have

637

:

seen themselves in a whole new light.

638

:

As this episode airs, this ends a second

series of all kinds of interviews that I

639

:

did earlier this year, and I'm so happy

about all the guests that I had up to this

640

:

point, being able to demonstrate this,

just as much as Kelly has today, of this

641

:

concept of persistence, the ability to

be tenacious when all things are lost.

642

:

As we move forward into a new series of

different guests that even start with

643

:

a local guest that I'm excited to share

with you during our next Thursday episode,

644

:

it reminds me of how far we can come by

just examining not only what people's

645

:

stories are, but how those stories have

turned into success, how we've been

646

:

able to not be graded by the past, but

how we've been able to move ourselves

647

:

into clarity and direction by simply

challenging what that emotion is, what

648

:

we have inside of ourselves, and being

willing to stand tall to show it off.

649

:

Regardless of whether you come from a

military family, whether you are the

650

:

first generation, second generation,

graduating from college or a trade

651

:

school, regardless of what kinds of

things that you might have happening in

652

:

your life, just remember, to become the

best version of yourself, it isn't just

653

:

about the relationships, confidence, and

determination that we've consistently

654

:

talked about throughout this whole series.

655

:

It's been about seeing that you are

really the most authentic creature that

656

:

has ever existed, and being able to speak

from the heart, not only in ways that

657

:

create positivity, not only in ways that

allow you to keep moving forward, but in

658

:

ways in which you are not only amazing,

but you're powerful as well, and by that

659

:

power, you have all the opportunities

to develop yourself in some amazing ways

660

:

that I'm excited to keep on exploring

with you on Speaking From The Heart.

661

:

Thanks for listening to episode

number 160 of Speaking From The

662

:

Heart, and I look forward to

hearing from your heart, very soon.

663

:

Outro: Thanks for listening.

664

:

For more information about our podcast

and future shows, search for Speaking From

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About the Podcast

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Speaking From The Heart
Your Speaking Voice LLC's Business Podcast

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About your host

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Joshua Smith

Joshua D. Smith is the Owner and Founder of Your Speaking Voice, a life coaching, business coaching, and public speaking company based in Carlisle, PA. Serving clients across the world, Joshua got his start in personal/professional development and public speaking in April of 2012 through his extensive involvement in an educational non-profit organization called Toastmasters International.

Toastmasters International operates clubs both domestically and internationally that focus on teaching leadership, development, and public speaking skills. Joshua quickly excelled in Toastmasters International and found that he had a passion for leadership and helping others find their confidence and their true "speaking voice". Joshua has held all club officer roles and most District level positions in Toastmasters International and belongs to numerous clubs throughout the organization. Joshua has also been recognized as two-time Distinguished Toastmaster, the highest award the organization bestows for achievement in leadership and communication.

Outside of his community involvement, education is something that Joshua has always taken great pride in. His academic achievements include a number of degrees from Alvernia and Shippensburg University. He earned a Bachelor's degree in political science and communications from Alvernia in 2009, a masters of business administration from Alvernia in 2010, and later a masters in public administration from Shippensburg in 2014.

In the professional world, Joshua has held multiple positions with the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania for over 14 years which includes a variety of data analytics, procurement, budgeting, business process improvement (IT and non-IT), legal compliance, and working with the blind. He has applied his public speaking and development skills in the professional world to tackle numerous public speaking engagements and presentations from all levels of the organization, including executive management.

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Every donation to the show will support the overall mission of Your Speaking Voice LLC, a company geared towards the transformation of individuals and companies by finding the hidden "voice" that is inside all of us.
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