Episode #160 - The Power Of Persistence: An Interview With Kelly Wilburn

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Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

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determination all converge into

an amazing, heartfelt experience.

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This is Speaking From The Heart.

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Joshua: Welcome back to episode

number 160 of Speaking from the Heart.

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Today we have Kelly Wilburn.

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Kelly is 37 years old and lives

in Jacksonville, North Carolina.

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She is the product of two marine

parents, and the youngest of five.

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She was the first to graduate from

college in her family, being part

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of the Wolfpack class of 2008.

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She is also a first generation

law graduate, having

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graduated from the Thomas M.

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Cooley Law School in 2012.

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By day, she is a practicing attorney,

but by night, she can be found at

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home cuddling with her cat, Smalls,

her dog, Duke, and hanging out with

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her boyfriend, Josh, which has no

relation to me, and I feel like I have

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to set the record straight on that.

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It is a different Josh.

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She enjoys being a member of

Toastmasters International, focusing

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on communication and leadership skills

development, and also playing the violin.

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It's been a while since I've had a

Toastmaster on the show, and I thought I

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was way overdue after I met Kelly at one

of my local Toastmaster clubs in Ashburn,

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Virginia called Winners Circle, but what

turned into a fascinating encounter which

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happened on the official Toastmasters

International Facebook group, turned into

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an awesome conversation about growing

up with two older brothers, living in a

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chaotic world that really dragged out all

kinds of different voices, and all kinds

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of resources for her to assist, but also

discovering her own potential, created

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the standards that she now lives by today.

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I think what you will find with this

conversation is a mixture of different

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positive and negative aspects, but that

every time that we go through life,

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even if we have to do it once, twice,

three times, even twelve times, which

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you'll find out how that number relates

to the bigger scheme of things, has

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really created this opportunity that we

should not be holding ourselves back.

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We can fail, but we are not

a product of that failure.

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We have all the opportunity presented

to us if we're just willing to create

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that dynamic in our own lives, and

I think you'll find, that in Kelly's

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story today, it is definitely about

not only that perspective, but having

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that tenacity to keep moving forward.

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But with that, let's go to the episode.

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All right, we're here with Kelly Wilburn.

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Kelly, thanks for sharing

your heart with us today.

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Kelly: Thank you very much for having me.

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Joshua: Yeah, absolutely, and I have to

say, thanks to the world of Toastmasters,

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I have another guest on the show that's

willing to share their story, and

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Kelly, I'm really excited about our

conversation that we're going to have

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today, just because of some of the

things that we've already personally

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interacted with outside of even this

show, for that matter, but I want to

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dig into something that you mentioned

that I've already introduced you about.

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It's interesting to me when I have

people on the show that have been raised

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in a military family, or have served

in the military for that matter, but I

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noticed that your parents were part of

the Marine Corps, so I'm wondering if

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you could talk a little bit about your

upbringing being with two Marine parents.

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I think that has to be not only

fascinating, but maybe strict?

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Maybe you can dispel that for me.

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Kelly: Sure.

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Yes, my mom and my dad both served

proudly in the Marine Corps.

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I grew up Camp Lejeune,

Jacksonville, North Carolina.

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It was a blend of strict, but also

loving, caring, just anything you want to

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describe for two very structured Marines.

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They offered the discipline.

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They offered the nurturing,

and that's how I developed into

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the person that I am today.

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Although I'm not a military brat,

because we actually didn't move around,

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I can say that it was an interesting

experience just growing up in that type

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of environment with people that did

float in and out, and me being able to

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take in Jacksonville, North Carolina.

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Joshua: How was it to be

the youngest of five though?

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Did you have more brothers than sisters?

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Were they all sisters?

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What was that dynamic, if you

can talk about that for us.

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Kelly: Yes, I am the youngest, and I grew

up with my two brothers, Lee and John,

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because my oldest siblings were of the

age where they were too old to grow up

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with basically, because my oldest siblings

were at least 13 years older than me, so

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I really only grew up with two siblings

in the home with me, but yes, they were

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both boys, and I was the youngest girl.

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Joshua: How was that

dynamic to be the only girl?

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Was it difficult?

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Was it easy?

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Was it something in between?

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Kelly: They like to say I was spoiled.

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I like to say I earned

my keep, if you will.

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Joshua: I can understand that.

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I feel like I earned my keep being

the youngest of three, and yet, I

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was the only male child my parents

had, so I can understand that.

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Kelly, I find this interesting

that after you grew up, you went to

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college, then you went to law school.

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You graduated in 2012.

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I'm curious, what was the aspect that

led you into not only going to law

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school, but what was it that really

pushed you into that direction?

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Kelly: The show Law and Order.

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No, I'm actually very much kidding.

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My mom loves the show, but really it

was a matter of I had a major in women's

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and gender studies at North Carolina

State University, and I wanted to make a

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difference somehow, some way, in the legal

profession involving women and children.

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How that was going to happen, ideally

it would have been prosecution, and

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that's not where I'm at yet in my

career, however, that was why I went

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to law school is to figure out how to

make a difference in the legal field.

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Joshua: When you say "make a difference",

what was some of the things that

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were running through your mind, or

even today, running through your

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mind, that you want to try to help?

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Kelly: It just seems to me that the world

is chaotic, and I think it always will be,

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but you just have to know who you are as a

person in order to relate to your clients,

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and everybody deserves representation.

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Joshua: Yeah, and you know, in

Pennsylvania, I actually read this more

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recently within the last several months

that we actually are terrible in our

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state about having defense lawyers being

able to defend clients that don't have

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the ability, or the resources, to be

able to do that, so I'm wondering, do

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you find that when you have potential

clients, and I know we're probably jumping

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way ahead, but it just kind of stuck

in my mind when you brought that up.

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Is there something in particular that

you feel that the criminal justice

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system can do, whether it's for the

prosecution, whether it's for the defense?

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Although I believe in rule of law, and

being able to carry out justice when

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it's appropriate, do you think there's

a better way to help not only uphold

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the traditions that we have in America?

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We've have a law system that I think

tries to strive for fair impartiality,

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accountability, things of that nature.

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What do you feel about things

that need to be changed if

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you have any opinion on that?

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Kelly: I think, overall, and this is

just very broad, but overall, resources,

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whether that be for the state, or

even for defendants, because for the

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state, there is a lack of funding

for district attorneys, meaning that

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cases can be dragged out for years

at a time because there's not enough

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DAs to prosecute the cases, so the

victims aren't getting their voices

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heard, and then for defendants, public

defenders: there's not enough of them.

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There's not enough of a pay scale for

people that want to volunteer to do that.

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It's just a lack of resources all

around, and it's just hard for the

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prosecution, hard for the defense, and

I wish that there was a way to fix that.

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Joshua: Yeah.

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It takes more than just one person to

be able to change a lot of the different

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circumstances that are involved with

that type of subject matter, too, but I

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have to back up a bit because there's a

bigger part of your journey of actually

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becoming an attorney, if you will, and I'm

wondering if you could share a little bit

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about your experiences, maybe during law

school that you've experienced, and even

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afterwards, which I know we were talking a

little bit before the show about what that

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is that you've been through, and I don't

want to spoil it, so, it's your story.

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I wonder if you could share

that with our audience.

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Kelly: Sure.

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After I graduated from NC State, I

took a gap year and I interned at the

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prosecutor's office in my hometown, and

that was a wonderful experience, and

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they encouraged me to go to law school.

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I unfortunately wasn't accepted into

any in-state schools, but I did apply

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to an out-of-state school, so I had to

pick up from North Carolina, and move

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to Michigan to go to Thomas Cooley

Law School, which is actually a school

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that accepts quite a few people which

is wonderful for me, but they saw the

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potential in me, because I did not have

a high admissions test score, and so that

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put me, I guess, at the lower tier of

admittees for schools, but once I got to

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law school, I had to work just as hard

as everybody else, because even though

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Cooley admits a lot of students, it's hard

to stay there, and that's their standard.

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They have a high standard for what you

have to do as a student in order to pass

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and graduate, and in law school, I found

that it was a struggle, because there's

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one exam for each class; maybe not in

electives per se, but generally speaking,

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there's one exam in each class, and that

determines your whole grade, and I knew

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right off the bat it would be a struggle,

because even in orientation, they had us

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do a basic reading comprehension test,

and I didn't do well, so I went to the

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academic resource center and I said, "Hey!

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I didn't do well.

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What can I do?", and they said, "Well,

we were going to call you in, and let

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you know that you didn't do well, and

try and help you figure this out.",

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and then they told me I should go get

tested by a local psychologist to see

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if there's something bigger than just

test anxiety, so that's what I did.

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I went to a local psychologist, and

the local psychologist did a few

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tests, but their ultimate diagnosis was

test anxiety, and unfortunately, test

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anxiety doesn't get you accommodations

for these exams, and one exam, again,

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determines your entire grade, so it

was a struggle for me in law school to

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maintain a good GPA, because one grade

is everything, and I wasn't finishing

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my exams, and I was having a tough

time, but that's how law school went.

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I mean, it was great in terms of being

able to learn and grow as a person.

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Having moved from North Carolina, I was

this Southern girl who was thrown into

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this Armageddon of snow, and I had to

find my way and it was just difficult.

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I had no family, but I made several

friends, and I made my way in law

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school, and it was a great experience,

but it was a struggle, for sure, to

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really figure out how to pass, for one

thing, but getting through law school

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was a struggle, and I wasn't sure why.

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Joshua: Obviously, you made

it through and you graduated.

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How did you make it past the test

anxiety that you had, given the

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fact that the medical profession

didn't really support you in it,

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so how'd you navigate through that?

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Kelly: I never got over my test anxiety.

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I was always afraid of tests, because

I went into these tests thinking,

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"One grade determines everything.

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If you don't pass, then you're not

going to pass this class, and you're not

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going to pass law school.", but again,

I had friends who were there for me.

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I had study groups, and we always went

in there as prepared as we could, so

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even then, I knew that I might not

finish, but I was as prepared as I

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could be, and that's the best I could

do, and that's how I got through it,

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really, was friend support, study groups,

and just the determination that no

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matter what, I was going to graduate.

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Joshua: For me, the last time I walked

in a college classroom was about over

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a decade ago, and that doesn't mean

that my journey is not over myself.

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I have aspirations that at some point when

I'm really successful with this business,

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which I will be, along with my career with

the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, which

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we've talked about before, too, of what

I've been able to achieve through that.

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I know that I'm going to go back

and get my PhD, and achieve even

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higher things for that matter.

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My journey is never ending for

that matter, but I always look

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back sometimes and think, "Wow!

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That was a struggle back then, but

it's not so much a struggle now."

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Have you been able to overcome things,

even in the past decade, doing what

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you've been doing and practicing law,

that might be helpful to people that are

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listening to this, maybe are thinking

about going to law school, or they know

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somebody that is going to law school?

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What do you think you've

learned after going through that

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experience and looking back now?

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Kelly: It's one thing to take

one test and not do well.

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It's another thing to take a few tests

and not do well, and not understand what's

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going on, and just thinking that it's you.

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It's nothing you can do, and so you

go into each test knowing that it

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might not turn out the way you'd like,

but all you can do is positivity.

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I had issues with that a lot.

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I had a lot of self doubt, and I just

kept thinking, "I'm not as good as

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everybody else.", because everybody

else is doing that much better than me.

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I couldn't figure out why I was struggling

so much, and everybody else seemed to

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be doing that much better than me, no

matter how hard I was trying, but I also

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had that element of negativity, where the

positive wouldn't outweigh the negative,

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so I had to learn over the years that

the more negative I am, the less positive

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results I'm going to get, and I feel

like that's advice I could give incoming

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students who may not do well on their

first couple of exams in law school, or

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any profession for that matter, because

if you go into it thinking you might

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not do well, or if you didn't do well,

and that's who you define yourself as,

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it's going to continue that pattern.

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Joshua: Yeah.

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I think we could be self defeating

in that in so many different ways,

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so I have to ask this question now,

because I'm kind of curious myself.

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If you were trying really hard, you

made it through school, obviously,

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there's a test that you have to take,

which is the certification to become

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a practicing attorney in the state.

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How well did you do with that then?

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Kelly: So when I graduated in 2012, it was

always my intent to pass the bar exam in

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July, and practice law in North Carolina.

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Well, the very first time I took it in

July of: 2012

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prepping, because usually what happens

is after you graduate, you start prepping

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for this exam, so you spend eight hours

a day studying seven days a week, six

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days a week, what have you, with a

prep course in order to do well on this

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exam in July, so that's what I did.

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I had done everything right, and then

on the day of the test, which it was at

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the North Carolina Fairgrounds at the

time, a huge storm rolled in, and the

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power went out, so that was one thing,

and then there's also a mouse running

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around, so that was another thing.

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There were quite a few distractions, and

again, I just wasn't going to finish.

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I was trying my hardest.

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I wasn't going to finish, but I did

my best, and there was a huge curve,

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given the circumstances of that exam,

but I didn't pass that July exam.

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I found out at the end of August, because,

North Carolina, they actually get you

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your results back pretty quick, contrary

to some other states, but yeah, I knew at

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the end of August once I got my letter,

nately, that I didn't pass in: 2012

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and the bar exam is offered twice a year.

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It's offered in February and July.

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When I got that letter, I had to kind of

digest, and I cried a lot, obviously, and

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I ranted and raved to family and friends,

and they were there for me saying, "Okay.

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It's fine.

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You got this.

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You can do it.

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We know you can do it.", and

with their encouragement, I

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applied for the February exam.

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Well, it wasn't exactly that

simple in February either.

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The process was the same.

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You have to do another application.

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You have to pay more money and you have

to study eight hours a day to re prep,

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but February of 2013, I still didn't

pass, but I applied for the July exam

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and tried in July, and I didn't pass, and

it sucks that it's only offered twice a

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year, but every time it was offered, I

applied, or at least for the most part.

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Life happens, so I didn't take

it every single time, but the

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tally ended up being 12 total.

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Joshua: You took it 12 times

before you were able to then pass?

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Kelly: Yes.

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Joshua: Wow.

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When you were getting these rejections

because you didn't pass- let's

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back up and say this, at least.

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I don't know if I would have had

the tenacity to be able to try 12

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times to be able to pass, and I

don't know, for some of my listeners,

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I think that that's a big number.

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That's almost a baker's dozen, okay?

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That's quite a lot.

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For you, when you were getting

these rejections over and over

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because of not being able to pass,

wasn't your confidence shaken?

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I mean, wouldn't you feel like

down in depression about it?

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Tell me a little bit about when you

were feeling those sort of things

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that you were experiencing every time

that you went through that, and what

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I'm really more curious about, after

you explained that then, is what made

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you keep on wanting to push forward?

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There had to be something, Kelly.

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They're really has to.

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For some people, I think they would have

just gave up, but you didn't, so why?

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Kelly: Because I'm stubborn.

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Joshua: Well, that could be part of

it too, and that's even for myself, my

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German heritage, would tell me, "Yes!

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: 00:18:28

I am very stubborn."

287

: 00:18:29

Some of my friends would attest to

that, but I can understand that.

288

: 00:18:33

Kelly: Yeah, it was a mixture of

stubborn, and just unfinished business.

289

: 00:18:38

I always had it in my head that I was

going to pass, and I would pass, and I

290

: 00:18:43

didn't spend three years in law school

to not pass, and I couldn't give up,

291

: 00:18:47

and it wasn't in my blood to give up.

292

: 00:18:50

I mean, my mom, she's a Marine.

293

: 00:18:53

She ran PFTs while pregnant.

294

: 00:18:56

I had such an example in my life

that I knew I had to keep going.

295

: 00:19:01

If she can be in this profession

as a Marine, I can be in this

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: 00:19:06

profession as a female attorney,

and just make my way in this world,

297

: 00:19:12

and I could not give up on that.

298

: 00:19:14

I spent so much time, and money, and I

just had the drive to keep going, because

299

: 00:19:22

I couldn't see myself not practicing

law, because that was my ultimate goal.

300

: 00:19:26

I had to.

301

: 00:19:27

Yes.

302

: 00:19:28

All of those rejections

made me extremely upset.

303

: 00:19:31

I cried a river like none other.

304

: 00:19:34

I mean, Noah's Ark could have

been reinvented for all the tears

305

: 00:19:37

that I cried because it hurts.

306

: 00:19:40

It hurts.

307

: 00:19:41

Rejection, after

rejection, after rejection.

308

: 00:19:44

It builds inside of you; that negativity

builds, and so the more I went into it,

309

: 00:19:50

the more I kept thinking I would fail,

and that's kind of where that came in

310

: 00:19:55

is I had the preset mindset that because

I failed before I would fail again.

311

: 00:19:59

I don't think I went into any

exam, except my final one, that I

312

: 00:20:03

took, thinking that I would pass,

because I had failed so many times.

313

: 00:20:07

I called myself a failure, but deep

down, I knew I wasn't a failure.

314

: 00:20:12

I was failing, but it wasn't a failure,

and there had to be some sort of

315

: 00:20:15

reason as to why, and just the more

I took it, the more I realized that

316

: 00:20:23

there was a few issues that needed

to come to light, and I wasn't going

317

: 00:20:27

to quit until I figured it out.

318

: 00:20:29

Joshua: You said something there that I

think really resonates, and I even say

319

: 00:20:33

to my clients too, is that you could have

this one individual, tiny, miniscule type

320

: 00:20:39

of situation that you could say, "You

failed.", but that doesn't define the

321

: 00:20:44

overall picture, the overall life that

we live, which is you're not a failure.

322

: 00:20:50

You're not a failure whatsoever,

especially hearing what your mom, and

323

: 00:20:54

even your family upbringing, really

contributed to help you keep pushing

324

: 00:20:58

forward, that's really incredible.

325

: 00:21:00

I loved hearing that, because I think

for some people, they would have just

326

: 00:21:04

gave up, but maybe it was stubbornness.

327

: 00:21:06

Maybe it was something else, but

you push those emotions away,

328

: 00:21:10

even after you experienced them.

329

: 00:21:12

You felt them, which is

something I even say.

330

: 00:21:14

You have to embrace it.

331

: 00:21:15

You have to feel comfortable about

it, so that, even after all that,

332

: 00:21:20

you keep moving that conversation,

that keep moving that piece forward,

333

: 00:21:24

which it leads me into really asking

you the crux of all this too that I

334

: 00:21:29

think really is a contributing factor.

335

: 00:21:32

You're a member of Toastmasters, and

for my longtime listeners, a lot of my

336

: 00:21:37

guests starting out on this show were

from Toastmasters, and I love talking to

337

: 00:21:42

people that are from Toastmasters that

have a membership, and they continue

338

: 00:21:46

to grow, and if you're a new listener,

I'm going to put in the episode notes

339

: 00:21:49

some information about Toastmasters.

340

: 00:21:51

Go check out a club local to you, whether

it's virtual, whether it's in person;

341

: 00:21:56

regardless of what it is, you can build

relationships, build some confidence

342

: 00:21:59

in your public speaking, and even

leadership, but Kelly, now that I've done

343

: 00:22:03

my sales pitch with Toastmasters, which

I haven't done in quite a while, you are

344

: 00:22:07

a member, and I'm sure it helps you so

much with your professional development,

345

: 00:22:12

being able to practice communication

skills with other Toastmasters, other

346

: 00:22:17

like minded individuals that are

trying to self improve themselves.

347

: 00:22:20

What would you say has been something

that has helped you with practicing

348

: 00:22:24

law, and has even helped you for

that matter working with clients,

349

: 00:22:28

that you could attest to that has

made you a lot stronger because of

350

: 00:22:32

being part of this organization?

351

: 00:22:34

Kelly: I'm really young still

to being a practicing attorney.

352

: 00:22:38

I'm only in my third year and the club

I'm a part of, the in person club,

353

: 00:22:44

which now virtual since I moved, but

the speeches I am giving, a lot of

354

: 00:22:49

them relate to what I've gone through

as a practicing attorney, and I like

355

: 00:22:55

to be able to tell that story, because

I have stories to tell as far as

356

: 00:23:01

learning, and figuring out my way as an

attorney, and they're there to listen.

357

: 00:23:08

I like crafting the speeches, and I

like getting those evaluations too,

358

: 00:23:12

because they provide this perspective

that I might not be able to see either,

359

: 00:23:17

and I like the fact that it's positive

reinforcement to those professional

360

: 00:23:22

career development goals, and just

being able to be in a group of like

361

: 00:23:27

minded people, just like you said, that

can provide that positive criticism so

362

: 00:23:33

that you can learn and grow from that.

363

: 00:23:35

Joshua: Has there been someone in

your club, or maybe even outside the

364

: 00:23:39

club, that you've been able to form

a connection with that has helped you

365

: 00:23:43

to continue growing in that journey?

366

: 00:23:45

Maybe they've served as a mentor for you.

367

: 00:23:47

If so, feel free to shout them out

if you like, and even give a reason

368

: 00:23:51

as to why they have helped you.

369

: 00:23:53

Kelly: Definitely.

370

: 00:23:54

My mentor is Virginia Sharp Marp.

371

: 00:23:58

She and I would get together for coffee

once a week, and she would sit me down,

372

: 00:24:03

and see how I was feeling and she would

ask about work, she would ask about

373

: 00:24:09

outside activities, and relate to me on my

level, and she would give me speech ideas

374

: 00:24:16

and she would just turn my negative into

positive also, because I was learning a

375

: 00:24:22

lot, and it was hard to absorb a lot of

that as a new attorney, but she was right

376

: 00:24:28

there with me the whole step of the way.

377

: 00:24:30

I had questions.

378

: 00:24:31

She had answers, and she just pushed

me forward, and propelled me further

379

: 00:24:37

than I could even imagine in just

my short three years of practice.

380

: 00:24:42

Joshua: When you say that

she's helped propelled you, do

381

: 00:24:45

you mean in a certain aspect?

382

: 00:24:48

Do you mean in a way in which it

helps you with your confidence?

383

: 00:24:50

I wonder if you can elaborate on that.

384

: 00:24:52

Kelly: Absolutely the confidence, because

a lot of the times I'd like to say I'm

385

: 00:24:59

confident, but it can kind of show if

I'm not, and Virginia is blunt, and

386

: 00:25:05

she will lay it on the table and say,

"This is what I'm getting from you, and

387

: 00:25:10

your vibe, and this is what I think is

something that we can work on.", and she

388

: 00:25:16

and I would work on positive mantras so

that I could build my confidence even

389

: 00:25:21

more, because I would tell her, "Oh!

390

: 00:25:23

I had such a low day.

391

: 00:25:25

Is this something that I should be

doing?", and she said, "Absolutely.

392

: 00:25:28

You worked so hard to get there,

and you're a testament to the

393

: 00:25:32

people in your field, and how you

can work best for your clients, and

394

: 00:25:38

just keep that up.", like, she was

always the positive to my negative.

395

: 00:25:43

Joshua: It's almost like the

ying to that yang, if you will.

396

: 00:25:47

Kelly: Definitely.

397

: 00:25:47

Joshua: Sometimes we need that, and I'm

wondering, as you were going through

398

: 00:25:51

all these different things in your

life that have really put you into

399

: 00:25:55

this position of, "If I stop now, I'm

not going to have this opportunity."

400

: 00:26:00

Is there a message in that, that you

feel that our listeners should grab from

401

: 00:26:05

that as they hear this conversation from

you today, because not only do you have

402

: 00:26:09

somebody that's helping you currently

with helping with your confidence and

403

: 00:26:12

giving you those skills, but you've talked

about the will set, the perseverance,

404

: 00:26:17

of pushing forward no matter what.

405

: 00:26:19

I know I'm probably stealing some

of that, because I'm like thinking,

406

: 00:26:22

"Wow, those are some great topics in

itself.", but yeah, I'm wondering.

407

: 00:26:26

What does that mean for you?

408

: 00:26:27

If there was something that my listeners

can take from you, from what they

409

: 00:26:31

have heard thus far, what would it be?

410

: 00:26:34

Kelly: Self doubt can be such a killer.

411

: 00:26:38

If you doubt yourself, how is

anybody going to believe in you?

412

: 00:26:41

You have to take it upon yourself to

realize everything you can offer this

413

: 00:26:46

world and show it off to the world,

because again, if you don't see it,

414

: 00:26:52

nobody else will see it, and you have

to project, even if it's just a moment

415

: 00:26:57

in time where you're just not feeling

it, you can pretend like you are, and

416

: 00:27:01

then other people will jump on that

ship with you, and with my journey, the

417

: 00:27:05

self doubt was real just every single

time I failed, and I wanted to quit.

418

: 00:27:12

I really, really did, but I had

that strong support system, and

419

: 00:27:16

honestly, times got rough too.

420

: 00:27:19

My mom and dad, they ended

up both passing away.

421

: 00:27:21

My mom died in 2018, and my dad died

in: 2019

422

: 00:27:26

supporters, aside from my brother,

and I wanted to know, why should I

423

: 00:27:31

keep going if they won't see me pass?

424

: 00:27:34

Why?

425

: 00:27:34

Why would I continue on this journey if

my biggest supporters won't see me pass?

426

: 00:27:39

It was the self doubt.

427

: 00:27:40

It really was.

428

: 00:27:41

I was telling myself there's no point

anymore, but, having been raised by two

429

: 00:27:46

Marines, and having my brother there,

I needed to push past that self doubt,

430

: 00:27:51

and I realized that there was more to

it than just failing, and so, I had to

431

: 00:27:56

find a solution and that's what I ended

up doing, and once I figured out why I

432

: 00:28:01

was failing, then I ended up passing.

433

: 00:28:05

Joshua: Yeah, and when we find that

key that helps to unlock what that is

434

: 00:28:11

inside of ourselves, maybe the things

that are self doubt, maybe for me,

435

: 00:28:16

and I've shared a little bit about

this before with you, Kelly, it was

436

: 00:28:20

really about my perseverance, even

when I felt like the world was crushing

437

: 00:28:24

down around me, and trying to take

everything away from me, I realized

438

: 00:28:29

that part of it is it wasn't the world.

439

: 00:28:33

It could be other people for sure,

but if you let them get the power

440

: 00:28:37

over you, I think that you're

never going to be able to do that.

441

: 00:28:41

You're never going to be able to overcome,

and I realized that, a year after I

442

: 00:28:46

tried to end my life, I sat around,

still in COVID lockdown, and I realized

443

: 00:28:51

that if I'm ever going to make a big

difference, I need to pick it up myself,

444

: 00:28:56

and ironically enough, with my long

term Toastmasters career, that's where I

445

: 00:29:01

picked it up too, is to go back into this

organization, so I loved the similarities

446

: 00:29:06

that we're talking about here.

447

: 00:29:08

Kelly, I want to give you one last

question here to wrap us up today, because

448

: 00:29:12

this has really been a great story to

hear from you about not only the power

449

: 00:29:17

of just keeping the commitment, keeping

the ability to not only know who you

450

: 00:29:22

are, but what your strength is, but if

there was one word that would describe

451

: 00:29:28

who you are that you want everybody to

know what you represent and what you

452

: 00:29:33

really are, and I know it's just one word,

so you got to sum her up in one word,

453

: 00:29:36

almost like a Table Topic that we do,

which for my listeners, is an impromptu

454

: 00:29:40

portion of our Toastmaster meetings.

455

: 00:29:43

What is that one word that

would describe you and why?

456

: 00:29:47

Kelly: If it's a Table Topic, it's

supposed to be one to two minutes.

457

: 00:29:52

Joshua: Well, we're going to

keep it shorter than that.

458

: 00:29:55

Kelly: One word to describe

me, I think would be tenacious,

459

: 00:30:01

because challenges are my thing.

460

: 00:30:04

If it seems like it can't be overcome

at this point, because I've passed

461

: 00:30:09

the bar, I know it can, and just

in general, I want to elaborate

462

: 00:30:15

just to the listeners real quick.

463

: 00:30:17

The one thing that was keeping me from

passing was a learning disability that

464

: 00:30:21

I was finally diagnosed with, so when I

got those accommodations, I passed, and

465

: 00:30:26

I was tenacious enough to go after it.

466

: 00:30:29

Joshua: Knowing what your disability

is, which I had one guest way back

467

: 00:30:35

in the very beginning tell me it's

about being differently enabled.

468

: 00:30:40

That's what the key is, is to be

able to unlock your differently

469

: 00:30:43

enabledness, to be able to pass because

we all have that equal opportunity,

470

: 00:30:48

but I'm glad you're tenacious.

471

: 00:30:50

I'm glad that you not only had the

opportunity to share your story today,

472

: 00:30:54

Kelly, but for you to be able to say that

you're a practicing attorney, despite

473

: 00:30:59

all the things that you have, trust me.

474

: 00:31:02

There are people looking at you and

watching you, even your mom and dad

475

: 00:31:06

for that matter, and for all those

reasons, Kelly, thanks so much for

476

: 00:31:10

being on Speaking From the Heart today.

477

: 00:31:11

Thanks for sharing this conversation

with me, and my listeners.

478

: 00:31:15

It was really a joy and an

honor to talk to you today.

479

: 00:31:18

Kelly: As it was for me too.

480

: 00:31:19

Thank you.

481

: 00:31:21

Joshua: I want to thank Kelly again

so much for being part of the show,

482

: 00:31:23

also sharing her story, giving me

something a little bit different to

483

: 00:31:27

talk about today, for sure, because

I know that for my listeners here,

484

: 00:31:31

we've heard a lot of different coaches.

485

: 00:31:33

We have a lot of different types

of opportunities to be able

486

: 00:31:36

to explore different concepts.

487

: 00:31:38

It's refreshing, sometimes, just to hear a

little bit of a story, just like Kelly's,

488

: 00:31:44

but I think that we learned a lot, even

from this, from a perspective that me,

489

: 00:31:47

as the coach this time, turning it over,

might want to be able to share a couple

490

: 00:31:51

things with you, so let's go through it,

because I think that we have to learn,

491

: 00:31:55

not only how we build structure in life,

but how we can develop those opportunities

492

: 00:32:00

around that structure to be able to

help us get to where we need to be.

493

: 00:32:04

I mean, imagine this that you are

the first person in your family to

494

: 00:32:08

graduate from different types of

schools to be able to then set the

495

: 00:32:12

tone, the direction, for all the

opportunities that happen thereafter.

496

: 00:32:17

Sure!

497

: 00:32:18

Other people might have already stepped

through it, and already had achieved

498

: 00:32:22

much success, but to know that Kelly's

story really resonates with this,

499

: 00:32:26

even in this world that we live in, I

think it's really beautiful to be able

500

: 00:32:31

to have somebody that grew up with

all these different opportunities,

501

: 00:32:36

all these different options, and she

was able to take advantage of it.

502

: 00:32:40

Kudos to you, Kelly, for being

able to do that, but even then, you

503

: 00:32:45

have to have those opportunities.

504

: 00:32:47

You have to have all those different

options available to you, and sometimes

505

: 00:32:50

living in this world that's chaotic,

especially if you're a military brat,

506

: 00:32:54

can also have all kinds of different

ways in which you're being manipulated.

507

: 00:32:58

You might be told to do this.

508

: 00:32:59

You might be told to do that.

509

: 00:33:00

Hearing ourselves even speak out loud

as to the opportunities that we can

510

: 00:33:05

have, to be able to hear our voices,

to find the resources and assistance,

511

: 00:33:09

can be also very temperamental.

512

: 00:33:11

It can put us into this staggering

pattern of always trying to strive to

513

: 00:33:16

be better, to be figuring out what is

it that we need to be doing in order for

514

: 00:33:21

that opportunity of a lifetime to occur.

515

: 00:33:25

Really, it begs the question, who

really saw the potential in you, and

516

: 00:33:29

I think that we heard a lot of that

in Kelly's story, that it's about

517

: 00:33:33

finding within ourselves what that

opportunity is, but allowing others to

518

: 00:33:38

see that we should be given a chance.

519

: 00:33:40

We should be not living towards a standard

that only dictates by a certain grade

520

: 00:33:46

whether we stay in or stay out of it.

521

: 00:33:49

I think that we've even learning and

evolving as a society that sometimes

522

: 00:33:53

grades, whether we're getting a letter

A, B, C, even D, don't always dictate

523

: 00:33:59

that we're doing the things that we

should be doing in a correct manner.

524

: 00:34:04

Of course we should be assessing

whether somebody is capable, but do

525

: 00:34:08

we need to use the grading system?

526

: 00:34:10

Does it mean that we have to be

determined by one set, one standard, in

527

: 00:34:15

which we're able to have that ultimate

achievement, because if that was the

528

: 00:34:18

case, I probably wouldn't be here today.

529

: 00:34:21

I wouldn't be able to share a

lot of my story, and even then,

530

: 00:34:24

would I want to be dictated by a

certain review of just one person?

531

: 00:34:28

Couldn't it be that maybe I just wasn't

a good fit for that person, and that

532

: 00:34:32

there are other opportunities out there

to engage, to feel like we're connected,

533

: 00:34:38

but I think that we learn the lesson

of life by just approaching it in a way

534

: 00:34:43

that, even with a grade that's given

to us, it's about how we respond to it;

535

: 00:34:47

how we actually move forward, that makes

all the difference, and I think that the

536

: 00:34:51

positive aspect of this is being able to

know what the difference is if we're just

537

: 00:34:57

willing to see that even if we are able

to approach things in a very different

538

: 00:35:02

way, in a way that we normally don't

approach things, we don't necessarily

539

: 00:35:07

have to approach them in a negative way.

540

: 00:35:09

You might not succeed once, you might

not succeed twice, three times, but

541

: 00:35:14

twelve times to be able to do something?

542

: 00:35:17

That takes guts!

543

: 00:35:18

That takes persistence, and those are

the examples that show you that the

544

: 00:35:23

human condition, the way in which we are

able to give direction and clarity, and

545

: 00:35:28

the things that we oftentimes are set

back on, really move us forward, so what

546

: 00:35:34

really holds you back then is really an

antithesis question, and it's a question

547

: 00:35:38

that we've asked repeatedly with other

coaches, with other people that we've

548

: 00:35:42

had, business owners for that matter.

549

: 00:35:44

I go back to several of my guests

in which I talk about why it was so

550

: 00:35:48

important for them to overcome that

stigma; that thing that was really

551

: 00:35:52

holding us back from really seeing the

true version of ourselves, and that's

552

: 00:35:57

really why I dig into it on this show.

553

: 00:35:59

It's why it's so important, because

each of our stories are different,

554

: 00:36:03

every single time that we go through it.

555

: 00:36:06

Even though that we have people that

come from all different walks of life,

556

: 00:36:10

we have to be respectful of the fact that

even if we fail, we are not a failure.

557

: 00:36:15

It doesn't mean that we get held back

by that emotion, by that persecution

558

: 00:36:20

that we're giving ourselves.

559

: 00:36:21

I think Kelly's story today really

exemplifies how we can lift that

560

: 00:36:24

layer of our life from where

it is now up to the next level.

561

: 00:36:30

Like minded people though, the people that

we surround ourselves with, being able

562

: 00:36:34

to find those opportunities to develop

ourselves, means that we have to create

563

: 00:36:38

that inner circle, and it's something

that I've even have mentioned to some

564

: 00:36:42

of my clients recently, which I'll be

even talking about more, on some future

565

: 00:36:46

monologue episodes, about the ways in

which we can create those opportunities

566

: 00:36:50

just by looking at ourselves.

567

: 00:36:53

What is it that we have in terms of sphere

of influence, and our inner circle, so I'm

568

: 00:36:58

excited to talk about those things with

you, but I don't want to spill the beans

569

: 00:37:01

now, but I will spill the beans on this.

570

: 00:37:04

If you take everything that you have,

and you show it off, it means that you

571

: 00:37:08

are essentially helping yourself to see

what kind of confidence that you have,

572

: 00:37:12

the ability to be able to overcome,

and it all means that we have to have

573

: 00:37:16

this process, whether it's through

cognitive means, whether it's through

574

: 00:37:19

talk therapy, whether it's through

some other activity that we engage in.

575

: 00:37:24

If we're able to say that we have this

ability to do something, that means that

576

: 00:37:28

we're really digging ourselves into our

ground, and saying that we are experts

577

: 00:37:35

beyond any kind of expert that we've seen

ourselves be before, and I think that's

578

: 00:37:39

where the beauty of true growth becomes.

579

: 00:37:41

That's where the true beauty of growth

begins, because I know how it is to

580

: 00:37:47

sometimes grow up in a world, especially

when you don't feel supported by

581

: 00:37:51

everybody, that really makes you kind of

question, "Should I really be doing this?

582

: 00:37:56

Is it really worth my time?

583

: 00:37:59

Is it really getting me

to where I need to go?"

584

: 00:38:02

I can't answer that for you today.

585

: 00:38:05

I know that it's so easy for me to try to

start answering that question, but if I

586

: 00:38:09

tried to, that would be really answering

my own point of view; my own perspective,

587

: 00:38:14

and that's something that even I have

wrestled with, because when we live in

588

: 00:38:18

this world that's kind of chaotic, and

it drags things out way longer than it

589

: 00:38:22

should be, when we're trying to figure

out how we can grow up with all these

590

: 00:38:27

kinds of opportunities that we have at

our disposal, if we're able to figure

591

: 00:38:31

out what kind of potential that we

have, those are the kind of questions

592

: 00:38:34

that really start to move us in the

direction that we really need to be going.

593

: 00:38:39

We need to stop struggling with the

fact that even though we have all these

594

: 00:38:42

standards, all these things that were

being set up, those are the things

595

: 00:38:47

that are often times the benchmarks.

596

: 00:38:49

They're making sure that there's

some sort of accountability.

597

: 00:38:51

It doesn't mean that you stop.

598

: 00:38:53

It just means that you keep applying.

599

: 00:38:54

You keep working on yourself.

600

: 00:38:56

You change the messaging of, "I can't do

it.", to that, "I can always find ways of

601

: 00:39:01

improving.", and it's weird that as I say

that, I'm reading a chart that I recently

602

: 00:39:07

got in the mail that I ordered from this

company called Displate, which I'm not

603

: 00:39:11

being sponsored by the company by any

means, but if you go to www.displate.com,

604

: 00:39:17

it's metal posters that you can order.

605

: 00:39:20

When you order these metal posters,

there's all kinds of different

606

: 00:39:23

options, whether you have Marvel

characters, whether you have famous

607

: 00:39:27

quotes from movies, regardless of

what it is, you can have any type

608

: 00:39:31

of image, and be able to paste it

on your wall, and put it somewhere.

609

: 00:39:34

I just recently put this poster up

about how you can change your words

610

: 00:39:38

from a fixed mindset to a growth

mindset, and I just read one of those

611

: 00:39:42

things off for you that really makes

me start to think that it isn't about

612

: 00:39:47

the standards that are being set.

613

: 00:39:51

It's about what we encounter as

the standards of what other people

614

: 00:39:55

have set, and how we respond to

them makes all the difference.

615

: 00:40:01

It's so easy in this world to get

trapped in all the negativity, all the

616

: 00:40:05

different types of discussions that

are happening on social media, all the

617

: 00:40:08

different things that are happening

that are sensationalized by negative

618

: 00:40:11

coverage of the news, but when we

actually start to dig deeper than that

619

: 00:40:15

and actually explore what the potential

possibilities are of what our lives can

620

: 00:40:20

be surrounded with, what we can create,

it starts to really challenge the status

621

: 00:40:25

quo of what it really means to create

opportunities; what it really means

622

: 00:40:30

to show yourself off; what it really

means, in one word, being tenacious that

623

: 00:40:36

really holds us from not just becoming

the best versions of ourselves, but how

624

: 00:40:43

we can break free of being held back.

625

: 00:40:48

It doesn't have to be dictated by a grade.

626

: 00:40:50

You heard it in Kelly's story today.

627

: 00:40:52

It really wasn't!

628

: 00:40:53

It was actually something quite different,

and I think that you need to learn, just

629

: 00:40:57

like how I need to learn, what it means

to be able to keep on persevering, to

630

: 00:41:03

keep moving yourself in a direction that

unifies not only what you want to work on,

631

: 00:41:09

but what your future self wants to become.

632

: 00:41:14

Some people take the wrong path:

drugs, alcohol, sexual abuse.

633

: 00:41:19

Sometimes they succumb to all those

weaknesses, and that's something that

634

: 00:41:22

even as a human condition, we have

to address, but on this show, we have

635

: 00:41:27

featured success stories every single

time, of the people, the places, the

636

: 00:41:31

things that have been done, and how those

people have overcome adversity, and have

637

: 00:41:37

seen themselves in a whole new light.

638

: 00:41:41

As this episode airs, this ends a second

series of all kinds of interviews that I

639

: 00:41:46

did earlier this year, and I'm so happy

about all the guests that I had up to this

640

: 00:41:51

point, being able to demonstrate this,

just as much as Kelly has today, of this

641

: 00:41:56

concept of persistence, the ability to

be tenacious when all things are lost.

642

: 00:42:01

As we move forward into a new series of

different guests that even start with

643

: 00:42:05

a local guest that I'm excited to share

with you during our next Thursday episode,

644

: 00:42:11

it reminds me of how far we can come by

just examining not only what people's

645

: 00:42:17

stories are, but how those stories have

turned into success, how we've been

646

: 00:42:21

able to not be graded by the past, but

how we've been able to move ourselves

647

: 00:42:26

into clarity and direction by simply

challenging what that emotion is, what

648

: 00:42:32

we have inside of ourselves, and being

willing to stand tall to show it off.

649

: 00:42:38

Regardless of whether you come from a

military family, whether you are the

650

: 00:42:42

first generation, second generation,

graduating from college or a trade

651

: 00:42:46

school, regardless of what kinds of

things that you might have happening in

652

: 00:42:50

your life, just remember, to become the

best version of yourself, it isn't just

653

: 00:42:56

about the relationships, confidence, and

determination that we've consistently

654

: 00:42:59

talked about throughout this whole series.

655

: 00:43:03

It's been about seeing that you are

really the most authentic creature that

656

: 00:43:09

has ever existed, and being able to speak

from the heart, not only in ways that

657

: 00:43:15

create positivity, not only in ways that

allow you to keep moving forward, but in

658

: 00:43:20

ways in which you are not only amazing,

but you're powerful as well, and by that

659

: 00:43:28

power, you have all the opportunities

to develop yourself in some amazing ways

660

: 00:43:37

that I'm excited to keep on exploring

with you on Speaking From The Heart.

661

: 00:43:43

Thanks for listening to episode

number 160 of Speaking From The

662

: 00:43:46

Heart, and I look forward to

hearing from your heart, very soon.

663

: 00:43:52

Outro: Thanks for listening.

664

: 00:43:53

For more information about our podcast

and future shows, search for Speaking From

665

: 00:43:57

The Heart to subscribe and be notified

wherever you listen to your podcasts.

666

: 00:44:02

Visit us at www.yourspeakingvoice.biz

for more information about potential

667

: 00:44:08

services that can help you create

the best version of yourself.

668

: 00:44:13

See you next time.