Episode #162 - Brewing Up Energy To Connect With Others: An Interview With Michelle Wolfe

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Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

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determination all converge into

an amazing, heartfelt experience.

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This is Speaking From The Heart.

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Joshua: Welcome back to episode

number 162 of Speaking from the Heart.

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Today, I am super excited to have Michelle

Wolfe join us, and Michelle is somebody

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that I got to know over the last few

months, because of a mutual person that

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had been on the podcast before, and as

a result of that, that connection being

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made, I was able to be on her show,

All The Things With Michelle Wolfe, and

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now I get to return the favor to allow

her to be on my show, so here we go.

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Michelle is a certified wellness

practitioner with a Master of Science

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in psychology, specializing in in

depth psychology and metaphysics.

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A certified yoga teacher, Reiki

master, and highly intuitive medium

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and witchy woman, Michelle specializes

in bridging the psychospiritual gap

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of a nontraditional approach to mental

health and mind body spirit connection.

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She utilizes various holistic

healing modalities to address trauma,

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attachment disorders, nervous system

dysregulation, psychosomatic symptoms,

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and relationship dysfunction.

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Her focus is personal empowerment

through increased self awareness

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and identity investigation, rooted

in self inquiry, playful curiosity,

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mind body connection, archetypical

exploration and radical acceptance.

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Well, I believe this witchy woman on

today's show certainly gives us a little

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bit of a different perspective, and

being that she's literally right up the

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road from me, located very nearby, I'm

excited about the fact that Michelle

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brings this connection about being able

to help others, and being able to be

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curious, as she even mentions, in a

way in which is very fascinating to me.

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Not only is it something that we

usually explore when it comes to the

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different chemistries that we have in

our life, which we talk a little bit

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about that today, given the witchy

comment that I have already mentioned,

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but I think it's a lot more than just

black magic, or sorcery, or alchemy,

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no matter what you look at it.

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I think it's about dealing with the

things that we have in our life that

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whether we feel safe, or we have shame,

we have to mix it with something else,

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whether it's positive in nature, or maybe

helping us to get to that next step in our

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lives that creates that support system.

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We don't need to be self centered.

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We just need to be centered, and I

think that you'll hear a lot about

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that in Michelle's story, and so much

more, about what she does to help other

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people become the best versions of

themselves in quite an interesting way.

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But with that, let's go to the episode.

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All right.

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We're here with Michelle Wolfe.

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Michelle, thanks for sharing

your heart with us today.

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Michelle: Thank you for having me on.

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Joshua: I want to say thank you for

allowing me to have you on the show

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because it's been a while since we've

talked, and for my listeners, I was on

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Michelle's podcast, which we'll talk

about here in a little bit, and I've been

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really excited to have you on officially

here, because you have so much to offer,

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and I feel that you have a space that

you are going to create for my listeners

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here, so thanks for doing this, and I

already let the listeners know a little

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bit about your background, but I was

wondering if you could start with your

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story of how you got into practicing

wellness and how you got into psychology,

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and I know those are like two different

fields, but you're such a multi-versated,

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multi-perspective woman, and I find that-

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Michelle: Very fascinating being.

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Joshua: Yes!

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Yes, you are.

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You have so much to offer on the table,

so I was wondering if you could dive into

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why that was a decision early on for you.

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Michelle: Yeah, I think, and it is

funny, because it's like psychology is

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one part of it, and spirituality is the

other part of it, and they, somewhere

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along the lines, got married for me.

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I think in my- I'll call it

awakening journey, but really, I

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mean, it started with, I don't know.

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I kind of always go back to like when

I had my son and I would say he saved

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my life, because it just gave me this

perspective that I couldn't have otherwise

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had, and then that sent me on this

journey of like wanting to understand

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myself, and wanting to be the best mom

that I could be, and so, that started

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me on the journey of developmental

psychology and that really, that "aha!"

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moment of understanding how my brain got

to be the way that it is, so that's that

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psychology part of me; that self awareness

part of me, but then that other witchy

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woo part of me, that's sort of the part

of me that's like innate that I can't

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deny, and so as I just went more along

this journey of really self discovery-

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but then that sort of spiraled into

wanting to have good relationships too,

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right, wanting to understand myself,

but then others, and then that started

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me into everything is energy, and that

started me into- I mean, it just kind

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of like has spiraled all along the way.

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Joshua: It sounds like it kind of like

built upon each other as the need arrived.

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Michelle: Yeah.

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Joshua: Is that fair to say?

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Michelle: More layers

are revealed, kind of.

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Yeah.

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Joshua: Tell me more about this

witchy side, because I don't see a

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broomstick or a hat on you, and I'm

just describing for our listeners.

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You seem like an ordinary woman,

so tell me more about what that

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means, because that's an interesting

way to describe yourself.

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Michelle: I know, and I'm kind of owning

it more lately, and to me, it is just more

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like if you saw my surroundings right now.

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I have plants all over the place.

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I'm very in-tune with nature.

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To me, witchiness is really just

like an attunement to nature.

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I do sort of have a sense of feeling

like a guardian of this planet in

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some way, and the inhabitants on it.

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I feel a connection to my fellow

people, but like beings in general:

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plants, animals, consciousness,

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and that stuff really goes into like

existentialism and depth psychology,

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and things, so again, the scientist

part of me then goes into my pursuits.

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Really it's the pursuit of

understanding my own behavior.

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I mean, there's lots of labels that

people could probably slap on me,

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right, so neurodivergent might be one

of them, and I can own all of them

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and not, because I don't like to be

labeled, which is a hard thing when

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you're trying to describe what you do.

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Joshua: Well, I think we have, already,

by saying that you're multi faceted.

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That does yield some great perspectives.

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First off, when I think of the

term, "witch", just getting

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back to that for a second.

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Michelle: Oh, yeah.

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Joshua: Sometimes that conjures up a, "Oh!

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She does black magic.", or,

"She's into sorcery.", but

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that's not how you described it.

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It's more nature based.

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Michelle: Yeah.

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No, to me, it feels that way, and there's

certainly people that go into it in

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different ways, and people will talk about

spells and things, but the way that I

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look at it is I very much value free will,

in and of myself, and that of others.

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We talk about spell casting, so

there's- I don't know if you've

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ever read The Four Agreements?

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Joshua: I have to say, real quick.

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My sister read stuff like that because

she was into witchery, sorcery growing

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up, and I feel like I've heard of this

book, because she might've had one.

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Michelle: Yeah.

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Joshua: Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Michelle: It simplifies a lot of

things, but like one of them is be

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impeccable with your word, and the idea

that like words are spells, but if you

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think about that, Wayne Dyer talked

about the importance of being mindful

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of using the words, "I am.", beause

when you say, "I am something", right?

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" I am anxious.", right?

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You're identifying with that thing then,

and that's very powerful, so I look at it

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sort of in that way, so when I think of

words or spells, we talk about witchiness.

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I'm just very mindful of the

word that I use, how I describe

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myself; how I describe others.

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Even in the readings that I do, I'm

mindful to not put people in a box.

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I try to encourage people to come

to things on their own, but without

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like guiding them, you know what

I mean, like, you walk a fine

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line when you do guide people.

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Joshua: Yeah, and I would say, and

this isn't labeling you either.

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I think this is just the way

that your methodology is.

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I feel that you're non-traditional

in the ways that you handle a lot

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of things, as I'm more traditional,

and I blame my autism a little bit

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on that, because I need to have

structure, and goal orientedness,

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and a lot of people appeal to that,

because that's a lot more practical.

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It's a lot more tangible, but yours is

more metaphysical, or more energy based,

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and I didn't say this earlier on, but I

think one of the connections that you and

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I have is that another guest I had way

back last year, the "Mama of Reiki" in the

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area, Ricky Merrill Friedman, is somebody

that you know very personally as well,

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and when I had that conversation with her,

I knew absolutely nothing about Reiki.

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I was a young podcaster that absolutely

had no understanding of it, and as

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I've grown in this, I've learned so

much about it from my other guests that

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I've had, and I wonder how you connect

the intersection of all these things.

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It's so fascinating to me, and I've

said this too, that there's coaches

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that come from all perspectives.

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You come from a different perspective

too, and that's the non-traditional sense.

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Michelle: And I do sort of like

to operate outside of the box.

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I didn't mean to be that way,

but apparently I came into

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this lifetime very rebellious.

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Joshua: Yeah.

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Michelle: I do look at everything as

energy and sort of polarity, and law

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of attraction, like those are things.

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I don't sort of subscribe to any one thing

as an end all, be all thing, although I

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do have some universal truths, and one

of them is that everything is energy.

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That came in for me as a truth, and when

I say that, when I had that epiphany or

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realization- and that came in, I was in

my MSW program at Shippensburg, and like,

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I had just watched this video on the

acoustic levitation of water droplets, so

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whatever was going on in my life at the

time, it just locked in for me, and I felt

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it in my whole body, and another universal

truth for me is that- I'll say it this

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way, but I'm not a religious person, but

God is love, or love is God, that love

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is sort of the answer, and there's like

a very powerful source of energy in that.

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I don't know if I answered you.

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I totally went off on a tangent, but yeah.

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Joshua: No, you did.

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I went off on a tangent a little bit

too with three different points, and I

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usually do that sometimes too, because I

feel like there's so much to unpack with

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that, so let's unpack this for a second,

so you're saying that God is love, or love

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is God, okay, so for somebody that is,

let's say non-religious, or is religious,

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and they come to you and say, "I'm

having problems with understanding that."

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You're helping them to see that for

themselves, so how would you walk

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them through something like that?

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If you don't mind describing that.

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Michelle: I don't like to speak for

Rickie, but I think this is one of the

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things that like her and I would probably

agree on is that eminence of that love.

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She would call it Reiki

light energy, probably.

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To me, that's sort of that radiance

of like heart chakra love energy, and

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I think that's like ever expansive,

kind of like when I see it that

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way, that's how consciousness like

plays, and it's the thing that

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connects us, cause we all need love.

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Okay, so that's part of it.

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The whole idea of God is love, and even

for me, I did grow up Roman Catholic,

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going to CCD, confirmation, all the

things, but the thing that always stuck

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with me is the idea of God is love.

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That is one of those things that even as

a child, I remember being like seven years

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old in CCD classes, learning about these

things, and that was something that came

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in as a truth, and I'm like, "That makes

sense to me.", and even the teachings

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of Jesus, when you pick the things apart

that's the one theme that I don't know

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that I always sort of resonated with, and

so even if we remove the religious aspects

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of those things, like whatever your

religion is on a human level, and even

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if we remove the human part of it, right?

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If we go beyond that to like greater

consciousness so that's collective

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consciousness, and see, then I get lost

in the ethos and I start losing people

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there, but that's the thing for me that

always connects us, so I can like sort

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of pull back to that level and see all

of us, whether we're a plant, or an

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animal, or a person, and like connect

with our consciousness is the thing that

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we share that we're here experiencing

with each other and co-creating.

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Joshua: That is true, and I do

understand it, and maybe for

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a more practical example, I

always use this with my clients.

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I talk about Maslow's hierarchy and needs.

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You need to be-

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Michelle: That's a good one.

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Joshua: Satisfied.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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You need to satisfy the needs immediate

before you can have the needs that

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might be out in the distance, and that,

collectively, has to happen in a society

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too, in order to find that balance,

and sometimes I think that we have a

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lot of work to do here in the United

States when it comes to that, but that's

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not to get into the mechanics of that.

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I'm more talking about the personal

aspect, like you are, so how would

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you say someone could be able to

help themselves to find that journey

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for themselves, because like, you've

worked through this, Michelle.

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Michelle: I have worked through a lot of

things, and here we can even use Maslow's

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hierarchy as an example, right, so

because of so much of what I am interested

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in my own self growth journey is self

realization, and that's like the top of

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the pyramid, right, but in order to get

there, you have to go through the levels.

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We can look at it like that.

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I like structure.

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I do like different modalities

and that's kind of what I bring

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to the table is like, there is no

one way, or one path, to healing.

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You have to find what works for you,

and the beauty of it is there's so many

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things that you can do, but so we'll

stick with the structure of this one.

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I would first then look at all the

ways that I don't feel safe, right?

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Because that's going to be my first level.

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I need to make sure that I feel safe

here, and you'd be surprised, but like

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a lot of people really don't feel safe,

and I'm saying that to say, like, I'm a

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self aware person and I have my own fears.

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That's not a bad thing, and so

that's another layer of like, let's

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remove the shame of not feeling safe.

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It's okay.

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Having safe spaces to talk about those

things that you might have fear around,

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being able to name that, that's an

important thing, and I think that like

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social media, or at least one of the

themes that I'm sort of noticing or trends

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that I'm noticing that I'm liking is

that people are talking more about it.

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I love to see that.

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I love to see men talking more about it.

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Joshua: That's why I loved being on

your podcast, which by the way, for

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my listeners, I dropped it twice

and I should really say it now.

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It's called All The Things

With Michelle Wolfe.

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It's something that you started

earlier this calendar year,: 2024

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I was like one of your first guests.

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We talked about even that much.

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Michelle: Yeah.

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I love that conversation.

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You really went into it with me.

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I appreciate it.

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You're so courageous.

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Joshua: I loved it, because you're right.

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It's not talked enough about

in the men community as a whole

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because there's a lot of shame.

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There's a lot of, "If you talk about

this, you are weak to other women.",

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even for that matter, and it's a shame

because I feel that I'm more attuned

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to myself as a result of that, and I

have work to do, like all of us do,

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but that's just part of the journey.

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Michelle: No, but I have to tell

you, like, I love to see it.

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Even listening to you talk about it,

but just like, because I love to see it,

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and thank you, because it's important

work and it matters, and so that too,

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like that ripple effect of that, like

I want to, again, like everything is

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energy for me, so like, that's important.

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Joshua: When you say that it's energy

for you, and maybe it's even energy for

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other people that are listening to it.

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How do we take that energy that was

for a good cause, maybe it might not

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be for a good cause, how do we transfer

that into something that can be used

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for our benefit, or I guess in your

world, and you can correct me if I'm

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wrong about this, but I'm assuming that

you would take this in your world to

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change it, to manifest into something

that is useful, as opposed to not safe.

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Is that fair to say?

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Michelle: So a lot of work that I

do is like, I'll call it alchemy,

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and I didn't mean for it to be

that, but it just kind of isn't.

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I think that's like the approach

that I've had with my life.

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I sort of have learned to alchemize,

we'll call it pain into productive

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things, but also joy, and acceptance,

and happiness, and courage, and all the

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things that made me this person, but

you know, doing that process of looking

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at yourself and like, what's coming

up for you, and especially addressing

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things like your fears, and then

looking at that and being like, "Okay,

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well, how can I empower myself here?"

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I see fear as a place where I'm not

quite free, and for me, I don't know.

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: 00:17:08

I just came into this world

being like freedom is paramount.

285

: 00:17:13

So then that makes me go, "Okay, well,

where are all the ways in which I'm

286

: 00:17:16

not free?", and fear isn't a bad thing.

287

: 00:17:19

I don't like to demonize emotions.

288

: 00:17:21

It's useful data.

289

: 00:17:23

That scientist part of me is like

always gathering data, but it's like

290

: 00:17:27

what we do with it that matters,

and if you use that to like propel

291

: 00:17:30

yourself into those things, right?

292

: 00:17:32

Like it sometimes it's uncomfortable, but

we get so afraid of feeling the discomfort

293

: 00:17:38

that like we keep ourselves from being

able to grow into the things to get to

294

: 00:17:44

that top of Maslow's hierarchy, like

the full realization of yourself isn't

295

: 00:17:49

just knowing yourself, and it is, know

thyself for sure, but like embody it.

296

: 00:17:55

That's amazing.

297

: 00:17:58

Joshua: It strikes me when you say that,

because I literally had this visualization

298

: 00:18:02

of kids, and this is a perfect example.

299

: 00:18:05

We're told as kids, "Don't cross

the street unless you're with your

300

: 00:18:09

parent, because they're going to be

looking out for you and making sure

301

: 00:18:12

that you look both ways.", right?

302

: 00:18:13

You didn't have that conscious ability

because you weren't thinking about it.

303

: 00:18:16

I want to be over there, but there's

cars that are driving down the road.

304

: 00:18:20

You got to be careful, but we're

taught then to realize you can do this

305

: 00:18:24

yourself, so there's an empowerment

factor, so I know I'm boiling it down

306

: 00:18:28

into a simple example, but it sounds

like it's sort of the same principle.

307

: 00:18:32

We got to be trained to know that fear.

308

: 00:18:35

Yes.

309

: 00:18:35

It protects us, but it

can also inhibit us.

310

: 00:18:38

Michelle: Yes, and I think that's

why somatics is so important because

311

: 00:18:43

learning, and when I say that really

what I mean it's just like being in tune

312

: 00:18:47

with what's happening in your body when

you feel something, right, so like, if a

313

: 00:18:51

fear does come up for you, then you can

check in with your body and go, "Okay.

314

: 00:18:54

Where am I feeling that in my body?

315

: 00:18:57

What's the story that's

coming up around that?

316

: 00:19:00

Am I making meaning of that?", and

you just start to pick away at it a

317

: 00:19:04

little bit to understand yourself more,

and then like how that might motivate

318

: 00:19:08

you or not, or what you want to do

with it, and then that's the thing.

319

: 00:19:11

That's where choice comes in.

320

: 00:19:13

I always say, once you bring it to your

conscious awareness, you have choice.

321

: 00:19:18

Joshua: You've worked with people on

this, and I wonder with the somatic

322

: 00:19:22

aspect of it, where do you see most

people struggling with when it comes to

323

: 00:19:26

being self aware, because I feel that

especially in this world that is just

324

: 00:19:30

bombarding, and you've mentioned social

media, which is a perfect example.

325

: 00:19:34

There's so many different avenues

of information that we can

326

: 00:19:36

access, so all that's happening.

327

: 00:19:39

We have the people that we associate

with, that's our inner circle; could

328

: 00:19:42

be part of that Maslow safety net too.

329

: 00:19:45

Where do you feel that most people

get stuck, if they do get stuck?

330

: 00:19:49

Michelle: I think I

have an answer for that.

331

: 00:19:51

I mean, I think that a lot of people,

social media, for example, so there's

332

: 00:19:56

this sort of effect, and I don't know

what it's called, but I'll use an example.

333

: 00:19:59

Say you want to lose weight and you

follow a lot of accounts that encourage

334

: 00:20:03

you to do different exercises.

335

: 00:20:05

Just by sitting and consuming, even

the videos of those exercises, in

336

: 00:20:09

some way, you've sort of tell yourself

that you did the thing, even though

337

: 00:20:13

you didn't do it, so there's that.

338

: 00:20:21

Do you know what I mean?

339

: 00:20:21

Joshua: That's called Netflix and chill.

340

: 00:20:23

I know exactly what you're talking about.

341

: 00:20:27

I just translated that for our listeners.

342

: 00:20:29

There we go.

343

: 00:20:29

We got it.

344

: 00:20:31

Michelle: Another example might

be more like, say you follow a

345

: 00:20:34

lot of like healthy foods, right.

346

: 00:20:35

And you're like, "I want to eat

healthier.", so you following them and

347

: 00:20:38

you're like, "That looks so good!", but

like, you're not actually practicing

348

: 00:20:41

that in your life, so that's a big thing

is like, number one, being aware of

349

: 00:20:45

those small, like sort of meaningless

actions that we take every day that

350

: 00:20:51

determine where we end up going.

351

: 00:20:53

Joshua: I love that though, because I

think that we're more attuned to the

352

: 00:20:56

bigger picture and we're looking at all

the inputs from that, but it's really

353

: 00:21:00

sometimes even the very small things.

354

: 00:21:02

It could be as simple as getting

up in the morning and manifesting

355

: 00:21:06

whether we have a good day or a bad

day or counter blessings or not.

356

: 00:21:10

Yeah.

357

: 00:21:11

Yeah.

358

: 00:21:11

Michelle: Perspective really

matters, and then just becoming

359

: 00:21:13

like aware, like getting curious.

360

: 00:21:16

That's one of my favorite things to

say is just get curious by yourself.

361

: 00:21:19

There's data around you all the

time, so things trigger you, right?

362

: 00:21:23

"Ooh, why do I feel that way?", or if you

feel judgmental about somebody, that's

363

: 00:21:27

always a good invitation to look at

yourself and be like, "Why am I judging

364

: 00:21:30

that person?", but like, I get curious

from a place of kind of amusement.

365

: 00:21:35

I used to be much, and I'm

still sometimes hard on myself.

366

: 00:21:39

Joshua: We all are.

367

: 00:21:40

Michelle: We all are.

368

: 00:21:41

My point was to say like, not from

a place of then judging yourself and

369

: 00:21:45

being like, "Why am I doing that?"

370

: 00:21:46

It's just more information,

and I don't know.

371

: 00:21:49

I just sort of like look at life as

like information gathering, and maybe

372

: 00:21:53

that's the research science part of

me, but you know, you can look at

373

: 00:21:59

it in terms of like a game, right?

374

: 00:22:01

It's all in however it

captures your attention, too.

375

: 00:22:05

Joshua: Yes.

376

: 00:22:06

Speaking of curiosity, though, so

you start- well, not start, you've

377

: 00:22:10

been doing this for a while now.

378

: 00:22:12

You're what you call a "wild heart

empowerment coach.", and that got

379

: 00:22:17

me curious, because you work on

some of the things that I kind of

380

: 00:22:20

even touch upon in my business,

like being your authentic self.

381

: 00:22:23

Michelle: Yeah.

382

: 00:22:23

Joshua: Find a way to do it.

383

: 00:22:25

Yeah.

384

: 00:22:26

That's why we resonate so well.

385

: 00:22:27

I love it, but what would you say is

your mission then, doing it with all

386

: 00:22:32

the things that you share, because

this has been a great conversation.

387

: 00:22:35

I think that we can all

work from different angles.

388

: 00:22:38

What empowers you to wanting to

help others though to see that?

389

: 00:22:41

Is it because of what you've been through,

and wanting to give that energy to

390

: 00:22:45

other people, or is it something else?

391

: 00:22:47

Michelle: I mean, I think some of it

is the idea that I like never want

392

: 00:22:51

people to feel alone for some reason,

and maybe that's because on some level

393

: 00:22:54

I must've felt alone or something.

394

: 00:22:56

I don't know.

395

: 00:22:57

I asked myself why.

396

: 00:22:59

Some of it is just a compulsion of

like, I feel like I need to share

397

: 00:23:02

these things, because I know that in my

reading of somebody else's vulnerable

398

: 00:23:09

sharing, and I've seen myself in someone

else's story, and that then validated

399

: 00:23:15

something that I needed and helped

me in some way, so there's that too.

400

: 00:23:20

It's the idea that here, maybe

learn from my mistakes, but

401

: 00:23:25

also not just my mistakes.

402

: 00:23:26

I share it all, but I do try to share

it all and keep it real and not just

403

: 00:23:30

share like the beautiful highlights

of my beautiful life, because life

404

: 00:23:33

is challenging, and I've been through

sort of the ups and downs, and

405

: 00:23:38

some dark downs, so that too, like

wanting people in those dark spaces

406

: 00:23:43

to see that there is another side.

407

: 00:23:45

Joshua: Do you worry about being that

vulnerable though with someone, and

408

: 00:23:49

maybe even taking advantage of that?

409

: 00:23:52

Michelle: No, not really.

410

: 00:23:54

It's just part of it.

411

: 00:23:54

It's just who I am, and I think

that at this point I've kind of

412

: 00:24:00

come to see it as like a superpower.

413

: 00:24:02

It's not a weakness, you know, so

if somebody feels like they need to

414

: 00:24:05

take advantage of something about

me, like I just sort of trust that

415

: 00:24:09

like karma will work that out.

416

: 00:24:14

Joshua: You heard it now folks.

417

: 00:24:15

Karma isn't anything in itself.

418

: 00:24:17

Michelle: And it's not like karma

is a good and bad thing, right,

419

: 00:24:22

so like I'm making karma all

the time and I'm aware of it.

420

: 00:24:26

It's like what you get, what you

put in, you get out, and also too,

421

: 00:24:29

like anybody that sort of takes

advantage of somebody else to get

422

: 00:24:32

somewhere, like they have to carry that

knowing with them, so I don't know.

423

: 00:24:37

I just imagine that that might be

a heavier burden and I'm glad I

424

: 00:24:40

don't have to carry it, you know?

425

: 00:24:43

Joshua: I love that!

426

: 00:24:44

You're so at peace with this.

427

: 00:24:45

You're like one of the first guests,

I swear, that, I mean, Rickie has

428

: 00:24:48

even said this a little bit when I

had that interview, and, hi Rickie.

429

: 00:24:52

I haven't acknowledged you, and

I said your name already, but

430

: 00:24:55

I have to say, like, you both,

along with a large community,

431

: 00:24:59

kind of are just like, "It's cool.

432

: 00:25:01

It's just part of what it is.", and I

feel like personally for myself, this

433

: 00:25:04

is something I've been working with,

and even after doing this show now for

434

: 00:25:08

so long, I'm still working on this.

435

: 00:25:09

I feel like I got to unplug some of

these things that are like, "Nope!

436

: 00:25:12

This is part of my imposter syndrome.

437

: 00:25:14

This is part of my negative self talk.

438

: 00:25:16

This is part of what I've held on as

past trauma.", so like, I see these bugs.

439

: 00:25:21

Oh, it is.

440

: 00:25:22

Yeah.

441

: 00:25:22

No, it is.

442

: 00:25:23

It is, but I got to unplug those

too, and I share that vulnerability

443

: 00:25:26

too, because I know that people

want everybody to be like, "Oh!

444

: 00:25:30

You have your stuff together.

445

: 00:25:32

You are able to do what you need

to do.", and that's not true.

446

: 00:25:34

Things come up, and I

mean, you acknowledged it.

447

: 00:25:37

You don't have to dive into it,

but you're saying things that for

448

: 00:25:41

some people, it's very hard for

them to do, so I'm wondering, how

449

: 00:25:45

can they do that for themselves?

450

: 00:25:47

In the words of your website, how can they

empower themselves to be a wild heart?

451

: 00:25:51

Michelle: Well, I do think that it matters

who you surround yourself with, so that's

452

: 00:25:54

the first thing that comes to mind is

like having a supportive system, right;

453

: 00:25:59

like a support system, and my support

system sustains me, and I've cultivated

454

: 00:26:04

a system of people that I feel seen by,

and that's really important to me, so

455

: 00:26:10

I would say that's like number one, and

it pains me to think that my mind goes,

456

: 00:26:16

"Well, how do I talk to the one person

that feels like they don't have anyone?",

457

: 00:26:19

right, because I don't want anyone to feel

alone, and then I would just say, like,

458

: 00:26:23

"Look, it's like looking within yourself."

459

: 00:26:25

One of the things that- and see, this

is why I share my stuff because people

460

: 00:26:29

will look at me and be like, "Oh!

461

: 00:26:30

You're so calm.", and all

these things like number one.

462

: 00:26:34

You don't know how much anxiety I've had

to work through to get to be this, and

463

: 00:26:38

I'm so proud of myself, and that's still

a journey that's unfolding for me, but I

464

: 00:26:43

would say in the last year, the last two

years, I've gotten even more like my own

465

: 00:26:48

best friend, and loving myself, and being

able to like finally look in the mirror

466

: 00:26:53

and be like, "I love you.", you know,

and mean it, instead of being like, "Oh!

467

: 00:26:58

That doesn't feel good still.", but

that's a journey, and I would say that.

468

: 00:27:03

If you can't look in the mirror, and tell

yourself that you love yourself and feel

469

: 00:27:07

that you can receive that, like start

uncovering all the things that stand in

470

: 00:27:13

the way of that for you, because like

whatever else, besides anybody else, we

471

: 00:27:18

need to be able to be here with ourselves.

472

: 00:27:21

Joshua: It is important to show up

for ourselves in addition to showing

473

: 00:27:24

up for others, but I even say to,

your first priority, you have to

474

: 00:27:28

understand what makes you vulnerable,

what makes you feel safe, what makes

475

: 00:27:33

you feel all those things, and to be

able to do that you have to sometimes

476

: 00:27:38

deconstruct what might be things that

you've erected, and I'll tell you, and

477

: 00:27:43

I think I even said this on your show.

478

: 00:27:44

I always say on this show.

479

: 00:27:45

My listeners get tired of me

telling about it, but I've had

480

: 00:27:48

walls that I know I've erected.

481

: 00:27:50

I've had to tear them down, and

I have to say, I give credit to a

482

: 00:27:54

very special woman that has been my

therapist for four and a half years

483

: 00:27:57

being willing to do that with me, so

you need those people that support you.

484

: 00:28:00

Michelle: You do, and I'm glad

that you said, beause like we do.

485

: 00:28:03

That's why we need each other, and so

a lot of what I talk about, I mean, you

486

: 00:28:08

know, so I work with people one on one,

but also it's about relationships, like

487

: 00:28:13

we're interconnected, and so, yes, we need

to be here and be autonomous beings, and

488

: 00:28:19

be okay, and centered in whole sort of

within ourselves, but really like we're

489

: 00:28:24

here to be here with each other, and to

engage, and interact, and collaborate,

490

: 00:28:28

and co-create, so there's a lot of

healing that happens in relationship,

491

: 00:28:33

and a lot of triggering that happens,

but like the triggering is to help

492

: 00:28:37

us get to the bottom of the things,

you know, that are coming up for us.

493

: 00:28:44

Joshua: Well, you know, to kind of put

a button on it, I have to say that we

494

: 00:28:48

do need to trigger that so we know what

is those receptors that we're touching-

495

: 00:28:53

Michelle: Exactly!

496

: 00:28:53

Joshua: And if those receptors are not the

right place that we should be feeling it,

497

: 00:28:57

that's where we need to be able to work on

it, and that's where people like you and

498

: 00:29:00

me, we come at it from different angles.

499

: 00:29:02

You are incredibly more well trained

in it, and I encourage people to even

500

: 00:29:07

seek you out for that purpose, too,

that you're able to provide that space

501

: 00:29:11

for them, and I love that, so Michelle,

gosh, the time flew by, so I would

502

: 00:29:16

love to have you back at some point and

continue this conversation, because it's

503

: 00:29:19

been beautiful in itself, but I want

to give you the last few minutes here.

504

: 00:29:23

If people are interested in

contacting you or reaching out to

505

: 00:29:25

you; maybe they might want to work

with you in your coaching program.

506

: 00:29:29

Maybe they also want to

listen to your podcast.

507

: 00:29:31

Maybe you want to talk about how they

can get in touch with all those things.

508

: 00:29:35

All the things.

509

: 00:29:35

Michelle: I'm a multi talented.

510

: 00:29:39

Yeah.

511

: 00:29:40

Joshua: You are, so I'll give

you the last few minutes.

512

: 00:29:42

Michelle: Yeah, so thank you, and thank

you for having me on and talking with me.

513

: 00:29:46

This was really nice.

514

: 00:29:47

Joshua: Absolutely.

515

: 00:29:48

Michelle: It is just always just sort of

natural, like time went by really quickly,

516

: 00:29:54

and I guess I would just encourage

anybody to check out my website.

517

: 00:29:58

I just launched it.

518

: 00:29:59

It's michellewolfe.me.

519

: 00:30:01

I tried to keep it easy, and

it has all the things on there,

520

: 00:30:04

so my podcast is on there.

521

: 00:30:06

It mentions the book that I'm working

on and all the little pieces that I

522

: 00:30:09

have, because I've got myself in sort of

all these different avenues, so, yeah.

523

: 00:30:17

Joshua: I will put that and all your

social media, and the direct link to

524

: 00:30:21

the podcast, and even I'll throw my

episode that I had with you on there in

525

: 00:30:25

case they want to go and check out that.

526

: 00:30:27

It was one of the early ones and you

have evolved so much as a podcaster.

527

: 00:30:31

I have to continue to follow,

listen to your episodes.

528

: 00:30:33

You know, as I said, I've

even had another guest.

529

: 00:30:35

Their episode will be coming

out after today's episode.

530

: 00:30:38

Michelle: I can't wait to hear it.

531

: 00:30:39

Joshua: Yeah, absolutely.

532

: 00:30:40

I won't spoil the surprise,

so don't- don't tell them.

533

: 00:30:42

Michelle: And I love that, and I love

how like that's the web, right, like

534

: 00:30:46

how we're all connected, and lift

each other up, so I love to see it.

535

: 00:30:50

Joshua: But what you do, Michelle, is

create that space for that connection,

536

: 00:30:54

and I feel that energy like I said earlier

with Rickie, and with the community of

537

: 00:31:00

so many other people, and I love that

you create that space, despite the

538

: 00:31:04

fact that you are doing it, even for

purposes that originally started out for

539

: 00:31:08

yourself, and that's what sometimes it

starts from is ourselves, before we are

540

: 00:31:13

able to then serve others, and I love

that you're able to do that, and you

541

: 00:31:17

do those for the things that are inside

your heart, which is why, Michelle, I

542

: 00:31:22

love that you were part of this show.

543

: 00:31:23

Thanks for being on

Speaking From the Heart.

544

: 00:31:25

I'm glad I finally got you on

to share a little bit about you.

545

: 00:31:28

I'd love to have you back and

dive more into these topics, and

546

: 00:31:31

by the way, for my listeners, I'm

telling you, she's not a witch.

547

: 00:31:34

She doesn't have a

cauldron in the background.

548

: 00:31:36

She's a very nice person.

549

: 00:31:37

You get to know her, she's a great person.

550

: 00:31:39

Michelle: We get it really bad.

551

: 00:31:40

We really do.

552

: 00:31:41

Joshua: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

553

: 00:31:43

Don't listen to all that.

554

: 00:31:44

That's not the right thing

to think about, but Michelle,

555

: 00:31:46

thanks for being on the show.

556

: 00:31:48

Michelle: Thanks for having me.

557

: 00:31:50

Joshua: I want to give an extra special

thanks to Michelle for being part of the

558

: 00:31:53

show, and I will also have her episode

that I was featured on, All The Things

559

: 00:31:59

With Michelle Wolfe, her podcast, in the

episode notes as well if you want to check

560

: 00:32:03

out the different role that I played when

she interviewed me starting out with her

561

: 00:32:07

podcast, but I have to say for Michelle,

I'm really excited about what she does.

562

: 00:32:13

It's something that for me, as a coach,

she has this way of just making you feel

563

: 00:32:19

calm, making you feel like you're centered

into what you really want to dig into.

564

: 00:32:24

It makes you want to really work

on yourself, because I think

565

: 00:32:27

that's really a gift in itself.

566

: 00:32:30

She talked about her son saving her

life, giving that perspective and being

567

: 00:32:34

able to realize that she needed to

be the best version of herself, and I

568

: 00:32:37

think that digging into that, knowing

that you have somebody else that you're

569

: 00:32:41

leaning into, creating that connection

with, it's just that fascinating type of

570

: 00:32:46

opportunity in our lives that sometimes,

when we get that person that surrounds

571

: 00:32:50

us, and helps us, and makes us want

to discover, makes us want to explore

572

: 00:32:56

things that we normally don't explore,

the energies around that surround us.

573

: 00:33:00

It makes us feel like we're comfortable.

574

: 00:33:02

It makes us feel like we have a purpose.

575

: 00:33:05

We were driving towards that

destination and I get it.

576

: 00:33:08

I see why Michelle has done all

these awesome things in her life.

577

: 00:33:11

I see why she has worked on so many

different avenues exploring that and

578

: 00:33:16

that's what I like about people that

are willing to dig deep is that every

579

: 00:33:20

time that you dig a little bit deeper,

you find a little bit more knowledge

580

: 00:33:24

that affixes or helps you align with

what you have as your guardian, and I

581

: 00:33:29

think that's really the term I want to

use because Michelle even talked about

582

: 00:33:33

being able to pursue those opportunities.

583

: 00:33:35

It doesn't mean that you have to cast

a spell or you have to figure out

584

: 00:33:38

who those people are necessarily.

585

: 00:33:41

We have to work through life, figuring

out that because of the ways in

586

: 00:33:45

which we interact with each other.

587

: 00:33:46

Our words are our own spells, and I

think that's so true with when she was

588

: 00:33:50

talking about that, because when we

describe ourselves in this negative

589

: 00:33:55

context, this thinking that we don't

belong on this earth, obviously that

590

: 00:34:00

creates a lot of different impressions

that you don't have your S-H-I-T together,

591

: 00:34:06

and I realize that our polarity, our

attraction to each other, is really about

592

: 00:34:11

how we create that truth in our lives.

593

: 00:34:13

It's not just about what we say to

ourselves, but when other people fuel

594

: 00:34:18

that conversation that we are not

good enough, why wonder we have so

595

: 00:34:23

many issues as a society as a whole.

596

: 00:34:26

I know that there's an obvious

connection with that, especially since

597

: 00:34:29

next week is going to be Halloween.

598

: 00:34:31

Don't throw me through a loop here,

because I think what Michelle really is,

599

: 00:34:36

is an example of the love and the energy

that can connect with each other, that

600

: 00:34:42

helps us define what we are ultimately

looking for: our personal truths.

601

: 00:34:48

You can look at it any

different way that you want.

602

: 00:34:51

You can find all these different

things that you can blame: the

603

: 00:34:54

shame, the ridicule, the fear,

the different types of things that

604

: 00:34:58

we've been called in terms of names.

605

: 00:35:01

Regardless of what you want to call it,

it's really about finding that personal

606

: 00:35:05

truth, so we have this chemistry set in

front of us, usually, that we have to

607

: 00:35:10

figure out which compounds, which bonds

will we have in the alchemy type of

608

: 00:35:15

sense that will create that purpose, that

productive purpose, as Michelle calls it.

609

: 00:35:21

I think that we also have to understand

that we have to create that environment.

610

: 00:35:25

That environment sometimes is with fear.

611

: 00:35:28

Fear is not a place in which

we should feel discomfort.

612

: 00:35:31

In another way of thinking, it means that

our fear has to be something that is a

613

: 00:35:36

byproduct of all the different things

that we're trying, meaning that even

614

: 00:35:41

as fear works on us, it makes us feel

inadequate, it makes us challenge whether

615

: 00:35:46

we should or should not do something.

616

: 00:35:48

Fear is only a self check.

617

: 00:35:51

It doesn't mean that we shouldn't do

it, per se, but it should mean that we

618

: 00:35:55

work on ourselves, that we work on ways

in which we create that foundation,

619

: 00:35:59

that connection, with each other.

620

: 00:36:02

It means that sometimes we have to check

in with that fear and get permission

621

: 00:36:08

to be able to work on ourselves.

622

: 00:36:10

Sometimes that permission, whether you

choose to accept it or not, means that

623

: 00:36:14

we have to also find other modalities.

624

: 00:36:17

Those modalities could be somatics,

checking in with yourself, even using

625

: 00:36:22

EMDR, using any kind of technique.

626

: 00:36:25

I'm not a psychologist by any means,

but by Michelle being on the show

627

: 00:36:29

today, she really exemplifies why there

isn't just one size fit all solutions.

628

: 00:36:36

Every single time that I hear that from

another coach, it drives me bonkers.

629

: 00:36:41

It means that we have to learn that we

need to fit ourselves into that coach's

630

: 00:36:45

model so that we can become better.

631

: 00:36:47

That is not how hard work happens.

632

: 00:36:50

It means finding ourselves, especially

when it comes to dealing with all

633

: 00:36:55

these different processes, all these

different things that are happening

634

: 00:36:58

in our life, we have to pay attention

to those small, minute details, and

635

: 00:37:06

sometimes you have to slow down to

find what that truth is, especially

636

: 00:37:12

when you're mixing different chemicals.

637

: 00:37:15

Now you don't have to feel alone in this.

638

: 00:37:18

You don't have to be

all vulnerable either.

639

: 00:37:21

It means that you're sharing things that

sometimes are a little bit uncomfortable,

640

: 00:37:24

but that's why coaches really respect

the fact that you need that safety net.

641

: 00:37:30

You need to feel comfortable

being able to tell your story.

642

: 00:37:33

You need to feel comfortable talking

to them about things that you normally

643

: 00:37:36

wouldn't talk about with someone else.

644

: 00:37:39

I know for me, I've already featured

on this show a number of different

645

: 00:37:43

guests, especially those that have

really helped me to get to where I am

646

: 00:37:46

today, business and personally related,

that have helped me become the best

647

: 00:37:51

person, the best version of who I am.

648

: 00:37:55

You need to surround yourself with that

support system and I've even talked about

649

: 00:37:58

that with last week's episode featuring

Kelly Wilburn, in which I mentioned

650

: 00:38:02

that you need to have that right support

system to be able to consistently work

651

: 00:38:07

on yourself means that you have to

focus not just on the personal things,

652

: 00:38:12

but you need to focus on the things

that sometimes, even by the naked eye,

653

: 00:38:17

you can't obviously see, which means

that we have to dig a little bit deeper

654

: 00:38:23

into some of the most invisible things

that we often don't want to look at.

655

: 00:38:29

That could be anxiety,

depression, even suicide.

656

: 00:38:36

You know, a number of years ago, when I

was dealing with my own type of feelings

657

: 00:38:40

about what it meant to start a business

and work on myself and deal with all

658

: 00:38:46

kinds of situations that were falling

around me, including even having friends

659

: 00:38:50

and family members that would walk away.

660

: 00:38:53

It started to make me think

about why is it really that

661

: 00:38:57

I have this happening to me?

662

: 00:38:58

Is it something that I'm doing wrong?

663

: 00:39:00

Is it something that I should be changing?

664

: 00:39:02

Is it about me?

665

: 00:39:04

Am I the problem?

666

: 00:39:06

As life has gone on, I realize that

we either have people in our life

667

: 00:39:11

that want to support us, or we have

other people that are against us, and

668

: 00:39:15

it doesn't mean that they're fully

against us meaning that they have

669

: 00:39:17

pitchforks and they want to get us.

670

: 00:39:20

They want to come to our house like

the Children of the Corn, if you ever

671

: 00:39:22

watched that movie, but let's be real.

672

: 00:39:25

Whether it's Freddy Krueger that invades

your dreams, or Jason Voorhees, it's

673

: 00:39:30

really about figuring out what it is

that you have in your life that gives

674

: 00:39:36

you the best perspective, allows you to

change your thought process, and have that

675

: 00:39:41

curiosity about what life has to offer,

and figuring out that your words do indeed

676

: 00:39:49

cast many different types of spells,

whether you believe it or not, and helping

677

: 00:39:54

to understand why those words do matter.

678

: 00:39:59

Michelle brings a perspective on

today's episode that really explains

679

: 00:40:03

that we have this law of attraction.

680

: 00:40:06

That law of attraction is based on so many

different avenues, so many different types

681

: 00:40:10

of things that are going on in our life.

682

: 00:40:13

It also means that we have to figure

out what are some other avenues

683

: 00:40:17

for us to change the conversation.

684

: 00:40:19

It isn't just about action.

685

: 00:40:21

It isn't just about the non-verbal,

which we've spent a lot of time talking

686

: 00:40:25

about, but it's also about the verbal.

687

: 00:40:28

How can you create that chakra love

that helps you with your energy?

688

: 00:40:32

It allows you to connect with various

personal truths about yourself.

689

: 00:40:38

You can't do that alone.

690

: 00:40:40

I know that I've said countless times

about the people, and the places,

691

: 00:40:45

and the things ,that you need to

surround yourself with but there's one

692

: 00:40:47

more thing that even after listening

to Michelle today, I have to add.

693

: 00:40:52

It's about how all of those things

interconnect, how they all form the

694

: 00:40:57

bond that you have inside yourself.

695

: 00:40:59

It's the alchemy that changes that pain

into productive purpose, so it isn't

696

: 00:41:05

just about the purpose that you have

in life, it's about how you create that

697

: 00:41:09

productivity, and I love that Michelle

has repurposed her life in so many ways to

698

: 00:41:15

become this wild heart of an individual.

699

: 00:41:18

Her freedom that she's willing to explore,

her embracing of femininity, her ability

700

: 00:41:24

to help others and see things that other

people might not normally see because

701

: 00:41:29

of her playful curiosity, really changes

the status quo of why it's so important

702

: 00:41:35

to be attuned, to be intuitive, to

be able to check in where things are

703

: 00:41:40

placed, be able to move the things that

are around in your room, so that you

704

: 00:41:45

don't feel as lonely as you once did.

705

: 00:41:49

Even as you go through this today,

even if you feel like you're haunted

706

: 00:41:53

by the ghost of past, I want you

to know that you're not alone.

707

: 00:41:58

Michelle has even proved today

that you have to investigate

708

: 00:42:01

this for your own liking.

709

: 00:42:03

You have to figure out what

your support system is.

710

: 00:42:06

You need to figure out what it means to

be centered; be able to co-create, but the

711

: 00:42:11

biggest thing is that if there's something

holding you back, like an invisible

712

: 00:42:14

illness, don't let it get the best of you.

713

: 00:42:20

Yes, I said it that way because

sometimes we need to hear those words.

714

: 00:42:25

We need to feel those words.

715

: 00:42:27

Every single one of them.

716

: 00:42:29

Do you hear each of those words?

717

: 00:42:31

Do you hear them pulsating within you?

718

: 00:42:34

It's almost like the beating of a

drum, and when you're beating to your

719

: 00:42:38

own drum, when you're able to figure

out that witchy side of yourself, not

720

: 00:42:43

in the black magic sense, but in a

way in which it allows you to create

721

: 00:42:47

images, thoughts, feelings of things

that you never thought possible before.

722

: 00:42:55

Isn't it magical how things change?

723

: 00:42:58

Isn't it amazing how we can become the

best versions of ourselves by discovering

724

: 00:43:03

how those energies all interconnect?

725

: 00:43:06

I think that it might be about time

that you got your chemistry set out or

726

: 00:43:10

go and purchase one, because when you

start to mix and match, you might be

727

: 00:43:14

surprised of what kind of energy you

might be able to produce, and maybe if you

728

: 00:43:19

find that magic formula, give it to us.

729

: 00:43:22

Share that wisdom, share that wealth,

because maybe that will be helping

730

: 00:43:27

you, and me, become the best version

of ourselves, all because you became

731

: 00:43:33

curious, or, dare I say, playfully

curious, about your own self development.

732

: 00:43:42

Thanks for listening to episode

number 162 of Speaking From the

733

: 00:43:46

Heart, and I look forward to

hearing from your heart very soon.

734

: 00:43:51

Outro: Thanks for listening.

735

: 00:43:52

For more information about our podcast

and future shows, search for Speaking From

736

: 00:43:57

The Heart to subscribe and be notified

wherever you listen to your podcasts.

737

: 00:44:02

Visit us at www.yourspeakingvoice.biz

for more information about potential

738

: 00:44:08

services that can help you create

the best version of yourself.

739

: 00:44:12

See you next time.