Episode 33
Episode #31 - Broadening Our Horizons: An Interview With Mark Snow
Living in our own methods that we have always known about the world and to do things may seem mundane, but they are also limiting in the aspirations that we can have about each other and the world. Our guest, Mark Snow, who has been living in a world of asking "Why?", shares his international perspective of always being curious and exploring the various facets of thoughts, ideas, and concepts. Through his personal and professional endeavors, learn how being the best versions of ourselves is not about unlocking the potential, but to learn how everyone values experiences differently.
Guest Bio
Mark is always thinking in the big picture. He is a Learning and Development Specialist, helping people and organizations work smarter, not harder. With his talents as a spreadsheet junkie and data storyteller, he takes complex things and make them easy to understand. He is a wine geek and educator, earning several types of certifications in this field. He is also a community volunteer, specifically with Rotary, Toastmasters and local LGBTIQ+ organizations. He enjoys travel, considering him a fiend as he tries to get to a few more countries visited in the post-COVID world.
- https://www.toastmasters.org - Toastmasters is an international organization that has allowed many of my guests to be on the show through personal and professional connection, combining all kinds of different types of communication and leadership development. Learn more about this organization at the link provided, plus check out the "Find A Club" option where you can locate an in-person or virtual club closest to you and your likings!
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Intro/Outro By: Michael Dugan, Podcast Host: Voice4Chefs
Transcript
Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and
Intro:determination, all converge into an amazing, heartfelt experience.
Intro:This is Speaking From The Heart.
Joshua:Welcome back to episode number 31 of Speaking From the Heart.
Joshua:Today we have our first international guest, Mark Snow, whom I've had the
Joshua:privilege of knowing for many years as a result of my Toastmaster's experiences.
Joshua:Mark is always in the big picture as he is a learning and development specialist
Joshua:who helps people and organizations work smarter and not harder, especially
Joshua:doing his project management role.
Joshua:With his talents as a spreadsheet junkie and a data storyteller, he takes complex
Joshua:things and makes them easy to understand.
Joshua:He is also a wine geek and educator in which he has earned several types
Joshua:of certifications in this field.
Joshua:He is a community volunteer, not only with Toastmasters, but also with
Joshua:Rotary and local LGBTIQ+ organizations.
Joshua:He enjoys travel, considering himself a fiend as he tries to get a few more
Joshua:countries visited in this post COVID world, and that was really a big topic
Joshua:of conversation, not only during our interview, but allowed us to get to
Joshua:know a little bit more from outside of a United States perspective, about why
Joshua:this travel is so important and why it's so important to explore all the different
Joshua:types of things that are in our lives.
Joshua:I really have gotten to know Mark over the years as being somebody that has not
Joshua:only lived life to the fullest, but has taken some of his talents, not only in
Joshua:the professional realm, but has expanded himself to become a worldwide influencer,
Joshua:and I really enjoyed having that conversation about not only the ways in
Joshua:which we can ask the WHY question, but how we can feel more comfortable knowing that
Joshua:we can be uncomfortable at the same time.
Joshua:With that, let's go to the episode.
Joshua:All right.
Joshua:I am here with Mark Snow.
Joshua:Mark, thanks for sharing your heart with us today.
Mark:Hey Josh.
Mark:Good to be back and yeah, great to catch up again.
Joshua:Absolutely.
Joshua:Mark, I got to let the audience know that you are my first international
Joshua:guest on Speaking From the Heart.
Joshua:Mark is from Australia, everybody, so thank you, Mark, for taking some
Joshua:time and being able to do this.
Joshua:I know there's an incredibly big time difference between both of us
Joshua:right now, and I'm super excited nevertheless, to have you part of it.
Mark:It's one of the great things about living in Australia is most of the time
Mark:you're living in the future, so get to see everything before everyone else does.
Mark:It's great.
Joshua:You definitely do.
Joshua:Mark, I have already let the audience know a lot about you and I'm really
Joshua:excited about the fact too, that you are a Toastmaster that I've gotten
Joshua:to know over the last several years, so for those that are interested in
Joshua:Toastmasters, you know the drill.
Joshua:I'm going to put a link in the episode notes about how you can get started
Joshua:in Toastmasters and meet incredible people like I have with Mark, and being
Joshua:able to learn a lot more about not only myself, but also other people.
Joshua:Mark, I want to start with this.
Joshua:I read in a lot of the things that you do, which I sort of knew, but
Joshua:I sort of did not, that you like to deal with a lot of spreadsheets.
Joshua:You are essentially a data junkie.
Joshua:Can you tell us a little bit about what you specifically mean by that?
Mark:Spreadsheets are wonderful.
Mark:It's that ordered sort of thinking and being able to bring things together,
Mark:almost like a bit of a puzzle, and people real sometimes don't get it.
Mark:They're like, "Oh, why do you do that?
Mark:It makes no sense", and it's like it's how I stay organized.
Mark:I don't know how people can just write things down and not store them or just
Mark:not be able to pull it together as spreadsheets for me are a way of bringing
Mark:complex information together, making it simple, and then telling that story, and
Mark:I think that is the real use of a tool like Excel or Power BI or whatever else is
Mark:it's about taking all of that information and turning it into something that other
Mark:people can understand, use, and enjoy.
Joshua:I've been able to do that myself at my own position too.
Joshua:I also do data analytics for state government, where I also manage
Joshua:procurement spending, looking at contracts, all those things, and I'm
Joshua:always telling a story to somebody that needs to have that information, especially
Joshua:for the variety of different things.
Joshua:In your typical day-to-day, I know that you do a lot of project management.
Joshua:How does that data help you to make decisions?
Mark:It's funny actually, I'm a state public servant as well, so
Mark:it's nice to meet another person working in the community interest.
Mark:It's great.
Joshua:I think there's probably a big difference between the United States
Joshua:version, which is where I'm from, and an Australian version, where you're from.
Mark:Oh, I think surely the frustrations are the same, right?
Mark:Trying to do the best you can within the confines of the system that
Mark:you're given, and my public service career has been pretty diverse.
Mark:I started out very much as a graduate in our Treasury Department and using
Mark:that policy, that financial knowledge and then I've kind of, sort of bounced
Mark:around to project management and strategic capability and training and development
Mark:has just been a really interesting journey and project management is again,
Mark:something that is fundamental to not just the public service, but sort of
Mark:all sorts of careers, and being able to have a plan is the fundamental thing.
Mark:It's having a plan and working it because so many projects fail because
Mark:they haven't been thought through properly, and people have just been
Mark:so eager to jump in that they haven't actually thought about the risks or they
Mark:haven't thought about the next steps.
Mark:They haven't thought about, "Well, who do I need to get on board to be able to make
Mark:this thing as smooth as possible?", and it's always sad, I think, to see really
Mark:good projects fall over and really good people get burned out and frustrated
Mark:because they didn't put enough time in the front planning out what they needed
Mark:to do, and I think for me, that's where project management comes into its own,
Mark:is being able to make things smooth, because even with good planning, a big
Mark:project can be difficult enough to get across the line, and yet if you do it
Mark:well, you can generate so many results for your community, for your business,
Mark:and even just for yourself as well.
Mark:It really builds your reputation as someone who knows what they're doing if
Mark:you know how to take a project, manage it well, and look after all of the,
Mark:all the bits and pieces along the way.
Joshua:I have that problem myself when it comes to project management, except that
Joshua:the project management I do is working with people that are trying to also plan
Joshua:their own goals, whether that is through life coaching, whether that is doing
Joshua:something like public speaking, which some of them have their biggest fears, which
Joshua:you and I both understand very well being that we're both experienced Toastmasters.
Joshua:Mark, when you are working with all kinds of different personalities in
Joshua:order to understand how to best move forward with that project, especially
Joshua:the planning part of it, are there any particular strategies that you employ
Joshua:that help you to get people to buy into what you're trying to do to make sure
Joshua:that it is achieving the objectives?
Joshua:What's your methodology or what's your strategy?
Mark:I think there's a real need to set the vision up front and be really clear
Mark:about who are your stakeholders, so who is going to be involved in this project?
Mark:Not just the people that are going to be working on it, on the project, but
Mark:also who's going to benefit from it?
Mark:Who's going to have influence over it?
Mark:Who are the decision makers?
Mark:Who are the stakeholders that if they decide they like or don't like the
Mark:project can possibly get in the way or help lift it up, and really getting those
Mark:people into the room, whether you get them all collectively together or you
Mark:reach out to them one-on-one, putting that time into building that relationship
Mark:and talking them through the vision.
Mark:There's a saying by Saint Exupery, medieval sort of philosopher, and he sort
Mark:of said, "if I want a ship built, I don't tell Ben to go out and get rope and cut
Mark:down trees and bring wood and whatnot.
Mark:I make them yearn for the open ocean," and I think that is how you sell that vision
Mark:is you really have to talk about what does the future look like if this is all
Mark:done, if it lands the way it's supposed to, what does that future look like?
Mark:How is it going to help people?
Mark:How is it going to reduce burdens?
Mark:How is it going to make the world a better place?
Mark:If you can describe that in really good detail and then start talking back how
Mark:you plan to make that happen and think about everything and address everything
Mark:that could go wrong along the way, that's where you start to build trust, and
Mark:once you build trust in the work that you're doing, it's a lot easier to get
Mark:their support, and that is something, even with the project that I'm working
Mark:on at the moment, which is going to be sort of a five, six year project,
Mark:there's so many different stakeholders and there's a cultural element as well to
Mark:play with and people really a appreciate you taking the time to meet with them
Mark:and to listen and basically make that.
Joshua:I know what you were trying to say is that we're all trying to
Joshua:essentially achieve the same outcome, but we're all coming at it with different
Joshua:ships as well with the way that we maybe built it, the way that we got there in
Joshua:the first place; maybe there was great wind, maybe there wasn't as much wind.
Joshua:There's all kinds of different variables.
Joshua:Let's move on to something that I find really interesting and I found it
Joshua:really particular, that you've picked this up over the last several years.
Joshua:Wine, which I think everybody enjoys.
Mark:Mm-hmm.
Joshua:I must be the outlier because I am not a wine connoisseur and I really
Joshua:don't know if it's just because of my upbringing or having anything to do
Joshua:with that, although there was plenty of vineyards around Pennsylvania.
Joshua:Pennsylvania's really known for in the United States also as having
Joshua:a great vineyard selection, but Mark, tell us why you got into being
Joshua:an educator or geek, essentially, as you have put it, with wine.
Mark:Wine is one of those things I've sort of hadn't understood for a long
Mark:time, but then I was actually on a visit to Sonoma County in California
Mark:and was able to stop in at a winery and really work through their selection
Mark:in a sort of very measured way.
Mark:It's sort of an enlightenment for me, just in terms of, "Oh, this is something
Mark:that I'm really interested in finding out more about.", and I kind of put that on
Mark:the shelf for quite a while until COVID came along, and COVID, I think one of the
Mark:silver linings of COVID, despite all of the terrible things that have happened,
Mark:is that it really forced a lot of people, and I'd sort of say most people, to really
Mark:step back and almost kind of reevaluate where they were heading in life in terms
Mark:of, "Oh, the world could end tomorrow from this world ravaging disease.
Mark:Have I done everything in life that I want to do, and are there things that
Mark:I've been putting off that I should actually start doing?", and wine was
Mark:one of those things where I was like, "Oh, so I've been putting this off for
Mark:a while, but I'm really interested in it and I should probably get started on that
Mark:rather than just letting it sit there and regretting not ever doing anything with
Mark:it.", and that kind of got me started.
Mark:I found wine is an interesting topic because there's a process
Mark:to it in terms of how it's made.
Mark:There's so much variety.
Mark:It's a great opportunity to travel, which is one of my sort of loves, but what I
Mark:do enjoy is sharing knowledge, and being able to help other people sort of move
Mark:along that path to greater understanding themselves, and so I really fell into
Mark:that wine education space using some of those Toastmaster skills and the training
Mark:skills for my own work, bringing that and connecting that to the wine space
Mark:has been really interesting because it's how do you take that innovation
Mark:in learning and and adult education and bring that into a field that hasn't
Mark:had a lot of about thinking necessarily applied to it, so it's fun to use new
Mark:methods of helping people learn and to be creative and to have some fun with
Mark:it, which I think people sort of think of wine as being this fairly serious,
Mark:fairly elitist kind of field sometimes, whereas actually it's open to everyone,
Mark:but it's how do you connect that field, and all of the complexity that comes with
Mark:it necessarily, to people in the real world and how do you make it enjoyable?
Joshua:That is always a big part of any sort of job or even any sort of personal
Joshua:experience, is being able to find the connection in which we really thrive
Joshua:and enjoy, and basically, it lived the life that we really want to do and this
Joshua:business that I started, I can relate to what you just said because I am now doing
Joshua:something that I feel is my true calling and been doing it for now over nine
Joshua:months and been enjoying that aspect of it for what it can do for so many people.
Joshua:With that said, do you find it that even though there are some people that come
Joshua:through and want to learn more about wine, that maybe they struggle or they have a
Joshua:hard time grasping those sort of things, or even some of the people that are like
Joshua:super excited and they want to jump all over you and you have to tame that down,
Joshua:again kind of similar to what I asked you at the project management, are there
Joshua:different strategies that you employ with that and how do you get everybody onto
Joshua:the same page, because I would imagine that it might be pretty simple, but what
Joshua:you're telling me is, "yeah, everyone can easily do it", but I don't know what the
Joshua:struggle is sometimes with maybe somebody learning about that sort of trade.
Joshua:Can you talk about that?
Mark:Yeah, sure.
Mark:I think it comes down to, again, people learn differently.
Mark:We sort of see the world differently.
Mark:We have different perspectives.
Mark:We absorb information in different ways, and the traditional way of sort
Mark:of learning things is very much that sort of lecture style where it's someone
Mark:at the front of the room just talking and that's not really a dialogue.
Mark:That's almost a sermon, and for those who are churchgoers, sermons can be
Mark:meaningful, but for a lot of people it is just sitting there in the pews kind
Mark:of being talked at and it not really kind of sinking in just more washing over.
Mark:It's how do you take a concept, something that's abstract and make it real,
Mark:and in the wine space, it's thinking about, "Well, let's look at maps.
Mark:Let's look at topography, let's talk about the process and actually sort
Mark:of demonstrate it as much as possible.
Mark:Let's go out and taste the differences and talk through what we are seeing and
Mark:feeling and smelling and whatnot", and using that as a basis of making it real.
Mark:I think learning is about taking a concept and bringing it to the real
Mark:world because it's very easy to talk about something in the abstract, but
Mark:no one necessarily grasps it until they can see it, touch it, smell it,
Mark:taste it, feel it in front of them.
Mark:At that point, it becomes a lot more understandable, and that then helps
Mark:with the learning process, so I find that is, my way of doing it and really
Mark:trying to keep it interactive rather than just being a one directional sort
Mark:of sermon, making it a conversation, getting people involved, sharing
Mark:what they know, their experiences, what they like, what they dislike,
Mark:and not making people feel inferior.
Mark:It's how do you build people up through the teaching process rather than
Mark:having them feel like they've been torn down or necessarily embarrassed
Mark:because they don't know something.
Mark:It's making it a safe space to ask questions, to have opinions, and to sort
Mark:of learn as a group rather than it's someone who's streets ahead, who's kind of
Mark:making everyone else feel a bit less than.
Joshua:That last part of what you just said really makes me want to
Joshua:ask this question because, as you mentioned, you are an avid traveler.
Joshua:You've probably been to many different countries.
Joshua:I know that I personally got to meet you in 2019 at a Toastmasters convention
Joshua:in the United States, and I know that you weren't born and raised in the
Joshua:United States like I have been and the attitudes, the perceptions, the
Joshua:mindsets, especially in the United States as opposed to, let's say another
Joshua:country, are definitely vastly different.
Joshua:With that said, and what you've been learning a lot with even teaching others
Joshua:about your craft of wine, do you see it that it's all about what people are
Joshua:perceiving as whether it's a reality or not, whether it's really easy for them
Joshua:to achieve things, because in the United States, I would say that a lot of people
Joshua:think it's really hard if you wouldn't know somebody, or if you have money to
Joshua:back it up, that makes a big difference.
Joshua:Do you feel like that's something similar in Australia?
Joshua:Do you feel that might be something similar in other countries?
Joshua:Tell me your thoughts on that.
Mark:I think in Australia, the system is a lot more egalitarian.
Mark:We don't have the wide disparities that you sort of see in the United States in
Mark:terms of wealth, influence, social status.
Mark:I mean we still have obviously rich people and we have people who are
Mark:less fortunate, but the curve is a lot narrower, and therefore, there's a
Mark:greater sense of social mobility, and a greater sense of fair player, as we sort
Mark:of call it an Australia, Fair Dinkum.
Mark:It's about how do you make the most of your life and how do you create
Mark:those opportunities for yourself.
Mark:Australians in particular are really big travelers.
Mark:We tend to be a bit more cosmopolitan in that sense, where, it's funny
Mark:because Australia, our country is as big as the United States.
Mark:It's a country and a continent in its own right, and yet we spend so much
Mark:time trying to almost get away and to explore other parts of the world
Mark:because we sort of feel like we're kind of there at the bottom of the
Mark:earth, very isolated from the rest of what's going on, and so you find the
Mark:average Australian does have a passport.
Mark:They do travel, they get out to Southeast Asia, they get to Europe, they get to
Mark:United States, they get to Africa, and really trying to explore and learn more.
Mark:I think we have this because we're a young country, even
Mark:younger than the United States.
Mark:There's this sense of this hunger for knowledge and curiosity about
Mark:the world and our place in it, and you find Australians get everywhere.
Mark:You can go to almost any city in the world and there's probably an Australian
Mark:in a bar serving beer, talking in that terrible, terrible Australian accent.
Mark:But, But that's, that's who we are, we love to travel, we love to explore.
Mark:It's very much that frontier vibe that we've carried with us
Mark:almost through our whole history.
Joshua:Even with that, you say something that really resonates with
Joshua:me in that there's a sort of curiosity of willing to expand your mindsets,
Joshua:and I feel that in the United States particularly, some portions of our
Joshua:country, there is no expansion of that.
Joshua:It's, "I've learned this growing up.
Joshua:This is my mindset.
Joshua:I want to stick with this because this is all I know."
Joshua:Thinking about that sort of process and how we learn and how we identify,
Joshua:because you have done this throughout most of your life, would you say that
Joshua:there's opportunity for anyone to be able to learn and expand their mindset with
Joshua:that, with even the cultural differences or even the things that we do in a work
Joshua:setting, from your perspective, because, I could tell you my audience day in,
Joshua:day out about what we could do here in the United States, but this is a global
Joshua:podcast, first off, I've always had that my intention, and you broke that glass
Joshua:ceiling for me today by being part of this, but at the same token, I really
Joshua:want to know what drives you, Mark, for being a international traveler yourself.
Mark:I think travel is the greatest investment you can make in yourself
Mark:because it has so many benefits.
Mark:It expands your horizon, it keeps you humble.
Mark:It really grounds your perspective and it lets you know in some ways how fortunate
Mark:you really are just to be able to travel.
Mark:It is a huge privilege in and of itself, but it stretches your
Mark:comfort zone, and I think for a lot of people that can be challenging.
Mark:It can be painful sometimes because you are pushing the boundaries of
Mark:who you are and who you think you are and what you think you can handle.
Mark:There's another great saying that I like, it's, "A ship is safe in harbor,
Mark:but that's not what ships are built for", so you can just stay in this
Mark:very sheltered place just not doing anything, just living in the day-to-day
Mark:and being really comfortable, but comfortable doesn't help you grow.
Mark:You grow when you are challenged.
Mark:You grow when you stretch.
Mark:You grow when you try new things, and yes, sometimes you make mistakes.
Mark:It's being able to travel through some parts of the world where there's huge
Mark:disadvantage and coming from a relatively wealthy country like Australia, it's
Mark:confronting to sort of see that there are parts of the world where this still
Mark:happens and that creates a certain sense of gratitude in yourself, but it also
Mark:helps broaden your thoughts around, well, how can you be of service and
Mark:how can you give back to that world because you realize how privileged
Mark:you are and where you sit within it.
Mark:Being able to explore countries with different cultures challenges your
Mark:ways of thinking and the beliefs that you might have had in the world
Mark:about certain countries, certain peoples, certain politics, all of
Mark:those things where you can see other places where people are doing things
Mark:differently and doing it well.
Mark:People can be happy doing things differently to how you think things should
Mark:be done and what makes you happy and I think being able to go to those places
Mark:and explore and be happy that other people are happy doing things differently to
Mark:you is a real sign of self-growth and maturity where you start to shift from
Mark:the way that you see the world is the only valid way of doing something, through
Mark:to actually, there's lots of different ways to achieve happiness or to achieve
Mark:success, and they're all valid too.
Mark:There are many different ways of living life and going about life that
Mark:are also valid, and I think that is a hugely powerful realization for many
Mark:people, and you don't have to have lots of money or lots of influence or
Mark:lots of success to be able to travel.
Mark:It's amazing how many people don't explore even their own neighborhood necessarily.
Mark:Sometimes it is just going to a different part of town
Mark:that you've never been before.
Mark:It's moving to exploring the town, one state over.
Mark:It's how can you create those opportunities in your day-to-day life to
Mark:try new things, to explore the unexplored, to find the unexpected and just create
Mark:a bit of wonder in the world because I, for me, find that sense of awe and
Mark:wonder and curiosity and inspiration drives a lot of what I do that sort of
Mark:real desire to get out, just learn more and soak up everything about the world,
Mark:even though it's not really possible to do that over the course of one's life,
Mark:but that motivator to go out and learn and to explore and to take the world
Mark:with a sense of openness and to really be open to learning about new things and
Mark:to challenging the way that you might see yourself in the world that helps you grow
Mark:so much and bringing it back to, say, a corporate or a work professional context,
Mark:it's volunteering for new projects.
Mark:It's putting your hand up for things that might be outside your role description,
Mark:but are going to teach you new skills or are going to introduce you to new people.
Mark:It's taking the opportunity to go to that conference or to
Mark:take up that training session.
Mark:It's how can I do what I already do in a different way that might actually
Mark:end up being a better way of doing it, but I've just never had the time or the
Mark:inclination to try it that way before.
Mark:There's so many different ways you can apply curiosity to the real world and
Mark:the great thing about it is it keeps you humble because you will make mistakes.
Mark:There will be things that you try that don't work out.
Mark:You will hit dead ends and you'll have to backtrack, but
Mark:in doing that, you learn things.
Mark:You learn things about what you're doing.
Mark:You learn things about the world.
Mark:You learn things about your work, and you learn things about yourself,
Mark:and all of those together, the more you learn about yourself, the more
Mark:you grow, and as you grow over time, you keep doing that consistently.
Mark:Eventually you become a much more different, and I'd argue a much more
Mark:rounded and a much better person than the sort of the little seedling that you
Mark:might be, or you might feel like now, you actually start to bloom and blossom
Mark:over time because you are exposing yourself to new experiences and broadening
Mark:out the breadth of your own mind.
Joshua:Wow.
Joshua:That was the longest answer to a question that I have given, Mark, because I'm
Joshua:sitting here and I'm listening to you and thinking about it, and no, you weren't
Joshua:rambling, because all of it had great context because for me, I'm sitting
Joshua:back thinking, "Yeah, maybe I should be doing a lot more traveling, and maybe
Joshua:I should be visiting places that are just in the other parts of town where I
Joshua:live here in Pennsylvania, and actually explore what those avenues are so that
Joshua:I can have a better understanding of the bigger context", and even for me being
Joshua:a business owner starting out in the last several months, I've learned a lot
Joshua:about what are some of the people that are making this big engine happen and is
Joshua:helping me to understand that I'm just a small little peon in this bigger palace
Joshua:that is being operated by all kinds of different people and having those
Joshua:perspectives and having those stories and having that understanding creates a
Joshua:lot of different things for all of us.
Joshua:You have been all over the place, I imagine, maybe different places, maybe
Joshua:not only in Australia, but maybe around the world, and I just want you to
Joshua:identify one place that maybe opened your eyes to that potential that you
Joshua:didn't realize you had or maybe changed your mindset in something that you once
Joshua:thought, "This is what I'm going to think about, but now you don't think about
Joshua:it the same way after that experience."
Joshua:Could you tell us a little bit about where that was, that where it happened,
Joshua:and why that was significant for you and how I got to know and how our
Joshua:audience got to know the Mark Snow that we're talking about right now?
Mark:I think the first time I traveled overseas by myself, which would've
Mark:been a six week tour of Southeast Asia.
Mark:Traveling through Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Lao, and six weeks is a long
Mark:time to be traveling anywhere, but that part of the world in particular
Mark:has a lot of natural beauty.
Mark:It also has a very long history that you don't hear enough about
Mark:because it's Southeast Asia and in the Western world at least, the view
Mark:of history is very Anglocentric.
Mark:I found, for me, there was lots of things I was learning, just seeing all
Mark:the sights, all the culture, all of these places of great natural beauty,
Mark:and for me, that challenged so much of my thinking of the world and it was like
Mark:opening up a door and realized, "Oh, there's this big room full of wonderful
Mark:things that I've never explored or never seen or heard or, or tried before, and
Mark:once you sort of realize that that door is there and it can be opened, you start
Mark:looking around in your own mind for all the other doors that might be out there
Mark:that are still closed, that you haven't opened yet, and then you kind of become
Mark:a bit of a junkie for that experience of really just opening those doors and just
Mark:exploring what there is to explore and finding out what there is to find, the
Mark:curiosity that drives you and because the more you learn, it becomes, like I
Mark:said, it's very much like an addiction where you get addicted to learning
Mark:and exploring and expanding your mind.
Mark:Some people take LSD, and other people, we travel to expand our minds.
Mark:You know, there's different ways of achieving the same thing, but that's the
Mark:thing that I think really drives me, is just really that curiosity to learn more
Mark:about the world and to try new things.
Mark:As you can imagine, when you travel, there's always the opportunity to try
Mark:new things and new experiences, new food, and Southeast Asia, there's quite
Mark:a lot of cultural cuisine that is very off the beaten track in terms of what we
Mark:would consider in the US or Australia.
Mark:It's for instance, tarantulas, scorpions, silkworms, moths, all
Mark:of those wonderful things that are-
Joshua:Ah.
Mark:-again, you can take the opportunity and you can say no, but
Mark:then by saying yes to that, right?
Mark:Yes.
Mark:It's a story that you then get to talk about, but it also like,
Mark:"Oh, this is an experience.
Mark:This is something new, and you realize actually these things
Mark:aren't too bad after all."
Mark:Am I going to serve tarantula soup to my house guests in the future?
Mark:Probably not, but it's a story, and it's something that I can say that
Mark:I've tried, and when other people kind of step back in a slightly scared or
Mark:slightly reluctant to try new things, it's like, "Well, look, I ate a tarantula.
Mark:This can't be as bad as that, surely."
Joshua:Definitely, and I have to tell you that my face cringed up when
Joshua:I heard about moths and tarantulas.
Joshua:Not really the delicacy of most places in the United States.
Joshua:The hamburgers, hot dogs, macaroni and cheese-
Mark:Tarantulas is surprisingly good.
Joshua:Yeah.
Joshua:Yeah.
Mark:Crunchy.
Joshua:I bet it is.
Joshua:Probably tastes like chicken because we our chicken sandwiches over here,
Joshua:especially in the restaurant part of the world, but Mark, we're getting closer
Joshua:to the end of our time here and I have one last question that I was boiling up
Joshua:inside of me that I think that might give us a perspective that, especially since
Joshua:you are our first international guest, I think it would be really appreciated to my
Joshua:United States listeners of this podcast.
Joshua:When you are thinking about all the things that you have done in your life and the
Joshua:many adventures that even you just said in the last question that I'm still wrapping
Joshua:my head around that answer because it was so incredible with the many different
Joshua:things that you have talked about that I really would love at some point to please
Joshua:sit down maybe in a future episode, but what is a way in which all of us can
Joshua:have the same level of curiosity as you when it comes to exploring the data that
Joshua:lives in our world, having the ability to taste some of the most unique cuisines,
Joshua:whether that is wine, whether that is food, whether that is different cultures.
Joshua:What drives you to have that curiosity, A, but also, what would you say to somebody
Joshua:that is figuring out having that sort of level of interest or that mindset?
Joshua:What do you think would be a good first step for somebody to
Joshua:do that in especially the things that you have done in your life?
Joshua:Can you share us a little bit of that before we close it out?
Mark:Yeah, sure.
Mark:I think in some ways it's almost going back to that childhood state of
Mark:being the annoying six year old that's constantly asking the question, why?
Mark:Why do people eat this?
Mark:Why do people rave about this place?
Mark:Why do people do things this way?
Mark:If you sort of use that question why as often as you can and build that into
Mark:your habits almost of mental thinking, then you start to become curious and
Mark:you start to think beyond what you see in front of you and you start to look
Mark:a little bit deeper, and that's where the real meaning in life comes from.
Mark:It's not just what you see on the surface, it's actually looking
Mark:below the surface and trying to understand what makes something tick.
Mark:Why does something act the way it does?
Mark:Why does that place have such a great review?
Mark:I think that's how you start to build curiosity.
Mark:In terms of turning that into action, it is getting comfortable with being
Mark:uncomfortable, and whether it's once a day or once a week, doing something that takes
Mark:you a little bit out of your comfort zone.
Mark:Maybe you go to a dance lesson, maybe you get up and do some community theater.
Mark:Maybe you try a sport that you haven't played before.
Mark:Maybe you go to a networking event and talk to people that are complete
Mark:strangers that you don't know.
Mark:I think if you start to make a habit of pushing yourself out of your comfort zone,
Mark:little by little over time you start to stretch how far you push yourself out,
Mark:for instance, maybe this week, you go to a small networking event, maybe it's a
Mark:business networking group, and then in a month's time you go to a conference
Mark:where you've got maybe 300 people that are in the room that you can possibly
Mark:meet and talk to, and then eventually you start to expand that in sort of logical
Mark:ways, so I think that's how you take that curiosity, how you build curiosity, and
Mark:then how you turn that into expanding your life and your experiences because
Mark:life's too short to just be living in this tiny box that you've created for
Mark:yourself and whether it's a gilded cage or it's something a little more mundane,
Mark:once you sort of open that door and you step outside and you see what lies on the
Mark:other side, whether you like it or not, you now know something a bit more about
Mark:the world and that if we are the sum total of our experiences, our knowledge,
Mark:all of those things that we've acquired throughout life, then the more knowledge
Mark:and the more experiences that we have, the more people we meet, the more connections
Mark:and relationships we make, then the more of us, like the better version of
Mark:ourselves we're going to be because we are constantly adding and expanding to
Mark:who we are over time, and that means that in the end, we become better
Mark:people, and that's what life's all about.
Joshua:Mark, I'm smiling over here because you're saying exactly the same
Joshua:things in which I started this business that I'm at, and how that mindset is so
Joshua:desperately needed in some parts of the world, and even in some parts of our
Joshua:countries, both of ours, where I think just changing that status quo, or, to
Joshua:use your words, to break out of that prison that we put ourselves in so that
Joshua:we can explore and try the things that we're not comfortable with, it can help
Joshua:us to broaden those horizons, and I have to say to close this, that you helped
Joshua:me broaden my horizons when I met you so many years ago, and I am so honored that
Joshua:we've continued to have this friendship despite distance, despite what the time
Joshua:difference is, but more importantly for the fact that you have always spoke
Joshua:from the heart to me way before this podcast ever became in existence, so for
Joshua:that, Mark, thanks for Speaking From The Heart on this official podcast today,
Joshua:and I really enjoyed our conversation, but more importantly, I appreciate your
Joshua:worldview being shared with our audience.
Joshua:Thank you for that.
Mark:Thanks, Josh.
Mark:It's been a pleasure and yeah, enjoyed the journey that we've
Mark:shared so far and looking forward to what comes in the future.
Joshua:Again, I want to thank Mark for being part of Speaking From The Heart.
Joshua:He's been one of those influencers in my life that even in my past times in
Joshua:which I was struggling the most, he was always there from an international
Joshua:perspective, from the time zone that he's in, which he's far into the future,
Joshua:but he always looks back and helps those that are desperately needing
Joshua:help, and that's always been his trait.
Joshua:His characteristic.
Joshua:His way of doing things.
Joshua:If you are interested in learning more about Toastmasters, as I always
Joshua:mention in my episodes when I feature Toastmasters guest, please check out
Joshua:www.toastmasters.org and I'll have that in the episode notes in which you
Joshua:can find a local club closest to you.
Joshua:Why?
Joshua:Because we are always asking that question of why we should do certain things,
Joshua:just like joining Toastmasters, and I think Mark actually brought that up to
Joshua:a context in which all of us need to understand how we can view the world.
Joshua:I always have found the world to be very overwhelming, especially
Joshua:when I was a child growing up, and it made me very unsettled.
Joshua:It made me feel uncomfortable about what might be out there.
Joshua:Growing up on a farm myself and realizing that there are many other opportunities
Joshua:outside of that farm, I was just afraid of where those paths would take me.
Joshua:If I were to venture on them.
Joshua:It might be as easy as going on a hunt.
Joshua:You're not sure where you're going to get the next big game, or be able to
Joshua:help yourself find that opportunity down the road of helping others
Joshua:find their voice, to tell the story.
Joshua:It might be even something completely out of the norm in which you are
Joshua:looking for that item at the grocery store, searching through all the
Joshua:different aisles, hoping that maybe you don't have to ask anybody for help.
Joshua:Yes, I was one of those people.
Joshua:Mark today really described a lot of things for us that makes us understand
Joshua:a little bit better about what we should be yearning for, and hearing it from an
Joshua:international perspective, especially being someone that is from the United
Joshua:States, really helps me to broaden my worldview of what's truly important,
Joshua:not only in life, but what we can assign as important when the time is right.
Joshua:Ah, When the time is right.
Joshua:Is there ever a right time?
Joshua:Having a plan to do that is so important, and even some of the things that Mark
Joshua:talked about today, even shared some of those concepts of what is really involved,
Joshua:what is really important, and being able to take on those responsibilities,
Joshua:which I really probed him in quite a lot when it came to being able to go into
Joshua:the wine industry and talking about why that is such a passion, why he wants to
Joshua:go and seek out different worldviews.
Joshua:One of the things that I do for even my business is think about the different
Joshua:opportunities and advantages that are out there for not only people that are
Joshua:struggling to find their voice and to tell their story, but to even just find
Joshua:something to latch onto to begin with.
Joshua:I always think that allowing ourselves time to reevaluate when it's truly
Joshua:needed is necessary, and being able to carve out that time, especially
Joshua:in the ever busy world that we live in, is very much a big struggle.
Joshua:I'm sure that as you're listening to this, you're probably working, typing away on
Joshua:your keyboard, sending that next email.
Joshua:Maybe you have a presentation that you have to send your boss.
Joshua:Maybe that four year old child that you have is coming up to you,
Joshua:pulling your leg saying, "Mommy, daddy, did you forget to feed me?
Joshua:It's time to eat", or, "Mommy, daddy, I want to play with you.
Joshua:Can we go outside?", and I know that it's all about prioritizing.
Joshua:Prioritizing in an international context, though, takes it to a whole new level.
Joshua:I think if anybody ever casually studied cultures across the world,
Joshua:you know that the value of time is completely different in each scenario.
Joshua:If you look at even some of the European countries, especially Spain, where they
Joshua:have a sort of siesta during the middle of the day for their workers in order
Joshua:to take enough time to not only enjoy lunch, maybe even catch a quick nap,
Joshua:or maybe even do some things at home before they go back and they worked in
Joshua:the early evening, and I know if that, maybe that might be very foreign to
Joshua:many of us to think about having that long break in the middle of the day.
Joshua:Why not just wrap it up?
Joshua:Why can't we just work a straight set of hour so that we know that
Joshua:we can be done at a certain time?
Joshua:I know that for many of us, being able to understand all those different
Joshua:variables might be exhausting.
Joshua:You might be asking yourself, "Well, I don't live in that culture and I
Joshua:don't plan to live in that culture, Joshua, so why does it matter to me?"
Joshua:It matters a lot.
Joshua:I think for some of us trying to have that sort of conversation with ourselves,
Joshua:where we're able to work on not only our best versions of ourself, but to
Joshua:find the relationships, confidence, and determination often means looking
Joshua:at it from a different perspective.
Joshua:It means changing your schedule.
Joshua:The definition of insanity is essentially doing the same thing over and over
Joshua:again, thinking that you're going to have a different outcome, and I think
Joshua:I lived in that insanity type of world for many years, many decades, in which
Joshua:I thought that if I could push myself one more step, if I can get that one
Joshua:more certification, if I can get that one more award, I can please everyone.
Joshua:I can do anything that I could potentially do just so that I can
Joshua:help others, but I have an important question for all those that might
Joshua:agree with what I've been through and you still continue to live that way.
Joshua:Is that living your full life?
Joshua:Do we just sit here, or do we just do something about it?
Joshua:Do we continue to be a little crazy, or do we continue to do something about where
Joshua:we are at in order to bring home money, wealth, fame, whatever the case might be?
Joshua:I think we have heard numerous guests on this show share those
Joshua:examples of really tying it all back to one thing: connection.
Joshua:We all strive for it.
Joshua:Sure.
Joshua:Travel might not be in your budget because traveling internationally
Joshua:can be very expensive, but for some people, even in places like Australia
Joshua:where Mark is from, that could be the greatest investment in yourself in which
Joshua:can create new opportunities where you never thought possible, and asking why
Joshua:can be the most important question of them all to understand and look at the
Joshua:world in a completely different way, so yes, I'm not debating that maybe you
Joshua:should spend more time with your kids instead of listening to this podcast,
Joshua:but I would love the more listeners.
Joshua:I would love more people to understand what that concept is so that they
Joshua:can become richer, fuller, and have that opportunity to do just that.
Joshua:It's all about feeling uncomfortable to be able to do just that, and some
Joshua:people are never ready to have that conversation, and it's not because they
Joshua:aren't equipped to do it, it's because there has to be something that changes.
Joshua:It has to be something that allows us to become the best version of what we want to
Joshua:become next because we're always growing.
Joshua:We're always pushing ourselves to that next level, and that's exactly what I do.
Joshua:I help people realize that, but you also have to ask yourself a question if
Joshua:you are afraid of doing such a thing.
Joshua:Can you possibly do it knowing that there will be opportunities to stretch yourself?
Joshua:To pull yourself into a completely different direction, or even make
Joshua:yourself feel like you are a small piece of this overall world that we live in?
Joshua:Earth is very big.
Joshua:It's vast, with its mighty oceans, dangerous terrains, extreme climates,
Joshua:but there are people, places, and things to do that can embrace us,
Joshua:can increase our visibility, and can make us soar to new heights.
Joshua:I think that for anything, it doesn't matter whether you're looking at a
Joshua:spreadsheet, it doesn't matter if you're managing a project, it doesn't matter
Joshua:if it's just a casual stroll outside in your backyard, wherever you live.
Joshua:It's all about understanding that passion and that commitment to being willing to
Joshua:see what the vast frontier is out there, and I think we all know that if we can
Joshua:be a little bit like Mark, if we can just be a little bit more open to the
Joshua:possibilities that exist out there, we can, and will, not only become the best
Joshua:versions of ourselves, but I think that we might actually be a little bit of an
Joshua:influencer ourselves, and that is what's really important: having that connection,
Joshua:having that drive, and having the willingness to share what's on our heart.
Joshua:Thanks for listening to episode number 31 of Speaking From the
Joshua:Heart, and I look forward to hearing from your heart very soon.
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