Episode #33 - The Quest of Becoming Who We Are: An Interview With Jeremy Cline

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Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

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determination, all converge into an amazing, heartfelt experience.

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This is Speaking From The Heart.

Joshua: 00:00:11

Welcome back to episode number 33 of Speaking From The Heart, and these

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are very special episodes in the month of September where we are featuring

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businesses that have made an impact and continue to make an impact in this

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world, and I'm forever thankful to all the podcasts that have been able to help

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me out to get started, and especially even our guest today, Jeremy Cline,

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which is another international guest coming from the United Kingdom, and I

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really appreciate our connection that we made through the BuzzSprout Podcast

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Forum on Facebook, which has allowed me to be able to become more proficient

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and be able to ask many tough questions that I've had even starting out with

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this show, so thank you to all those that support podcast, especially the

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businesses surrounding all of them.

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Today's guest, Jeremy, is a career and business coach and the host of Change

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Work Life, which is a podcast that's all about beating the Sunday evening

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blues and enjoying Mondays again.

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He hosts interviews with ordinary people that have taken action to

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change the path of their career and the career coaches who've helped them.

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Jeremy explores those changes that anyone can make to enjoy a better working life.

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Whether these changes are small alterations to day-to-day routines,

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major career shifts, or something in between, and I love their story with what

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Jeremy had to share about how he even got this started because after 15 years

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in which he spent largely furthering other people's dreams, he asked and

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started to wonder whether he was going to end his career thinking, "Really?

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This is what I did with 40 years of working life?"

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The podcast that he started, Change Work Life, helps to find out what those

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alternatives are and because of his coaching, he's able to help others, and

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I love the synergy that we've had in this episode because it allowed us to not only

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talk about some of the things that he still does, but because of the support

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of his wife, because of the things that he's looking at in terms of adjusting

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the time that we have in this world in order to value what's truly important, I

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think that he has been on the right track to find his happiness, and I really was

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encouraged from what I heard during this conversation as I think you will too.

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But with that, let's go to the episode.

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All right.

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We have Jeremy Cline with us.

Joshua: 00:02:41

Jeremy, thanks for sharing your heart with us today.

Jeremy: 00:02:45

Thank you so much for having me on your show.

Joshua: 00:02:47

Absolutely, and for my audience, you probably already could tell Jeremy

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is another international guest that we have on the show coming from England,

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so I really appreciate always for those coming from another time zone.

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Thank you for being able to make time for us over here in the United States as well.

Joshua: 00:03:06

Jeremy, I already let the audience know a lot about what you are and what you do,

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so my first question for you is, I love the fact that you have been a lawyer.

Joshua: 00:03:17

I think you still practice law-

Jeremy: 00:03:18

I still am, yeah.

Jeremy: 00:03:19

Yeah.

Joshua: 00:03:19

Yeah.

Joshua: 00:03:20

I'm really curious what got you started in that field in the first place, and

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what eventually changed for you to be able to help others with what you

Joshua: 00:03:31

do in your company that you do now?

Jeremy: 00:03:35

I think the thread that has kind of led me up to my transition

Jeremy: 00:03:42

itself, and as you say, I'm kind of mid transition at the moment, is

Jeremy: 00:03:46

always having had this feeling of doing what I felt I should do rather than

Jeremy: 00:03:51

necessarily than what I wanted to do or what intrinsically felt right for me.

Jeremy: 00:03:58

The idea of being a lawyer in the first place came when a mate of

Jeremy: 00:04:03

mine at school basically said to me, "Jeremy, you are always arguing.

Jeremy: 00:04:07

You should be a lawyer", and so the idea kind of just stuck and I explored

Jeremy: 00:04:12

a couple of other career paths, but that was the one that I went for

Jeremy: 00:04:15

eventually, and there probably should have been some warning signs early on.

Jeremy: 00:04:23

There have definitely been points during my career where, I have enjoyed it.

Jeremy: 00:04:27

I have found it fulfilling.

Jeremy: 00:04:29

There's been times where it's been pretty good, but I can't think ever if

Jeremy: 00:04:35

there having been a time where I felt, "Wow, I can't believe I get to do this.

Jeremy: 00:04:41

I'm the luckiest guy on Earth."

Jeremy: 00:04:43

It was much more about, "This is a respectable career.

Jeremy: 00:04:47

I've worked hard to get here.

Jeremy: 00:04:49

It's well paid.

Jeremy: 00:04:52

I've got the potential to do well here."

Jeremy: 00:04:55

Okay.

Jeremy: 00:04:55

Maybe work's just not supposed to be something that you enjoy.

Jeremy: 00:05:00

It's a job.

Jeremy: 00:05:01

It's the thing you do, but you know, hey ho it's never going to be bits

Jeremy: 00:05:05

of it where I kind of go, "Woo-hoo.

Jeremy: 00:05:06

This is brilliant", and it took me the longest time to figure out that

Jeremy: 00:05:12

I was barking up the wrong tree on that, and I think there's probably

Jeremy: 00:05:16

still quite a lot of people who still haven't figured that out.

Jeremy: 00:05:19

I guess it was about, it was probably as long ago, it was about five years

Jeremy: 00:05:23

ago where I was really starting to feel, "Oh God, is this it?

Jeremy: 00:05:28

Is this really what I'm going to do for the next 20, 25 years of my

Jeremy: 00:05:33

working life?", and I'd started to get interested in kind of like the business

Jeremy: 00:05:42

personal development side of things.

Jeremy: 00:05:44

My entry point was real estate; the area of law I work in.

Jeremy: 00:05:48

My clients are some of the world's wealthiest families, and one of the

Jeremy: 00:05:53

things I realized was that a heck of a lot of them are in real estate, and so

Jeremy: 00:05:57

I started to think, "Huh, There must be something in this", and so I started

Jeremy: 00:06:02

getting interested in it myself, and that led me to a podcast which talked a

Jeremy: 00:06:08

lot about real estate, but also personal development, business, economics, that

Jeremy: 00:06:13

side of things, and so that sparked my interest and the point that I decided,

Jeremy: 00:06:22

"Yes, I need to make a change of some description", was after reading a book,

Jeremy: 00:06:27

which was recommended on this property based show, which was a book called

Jeremy: 00:06:32

Unscripted by an author called MJ DeMarco.

Jeremy: 00:06:37

It's his second book.

Jeremy: 00:06:38

He's also written a book called Millionaire Fast Lane, which is quite

Jeremy: 00:06:41

well known and the first part is pretty much a rant as to why having a job is a

Jeremy: 00:06:49

terrible course of action and how it's a sort of slow lane to wealth and retirement

Jeremy: 00:06:55

and that kind of thing, and then the second bit is pretty much a blueprint

Jeremy: 00:07:00

for what can make a successful business.

Jeremy: 00:07:03

If I had to pick one single point or one single book, which turned

Jeremy: 00:07:08

my head, it would've been that one.

Jeremy: 00:07:10

That one was the one that made me go, "Yeah, this makes sense.

Jeremy: 00:07:14

I want to start my own business."

Jeremy: 00:07:17

It has been a very, very long road from that point to where I am now,

Jeremy: 00:07:21

and I am not even halfway down that road, but that was the starting

Jeremy: 00:07:26

point that really kicked things off.

Joshua: 00:07:28

Have there been people along the way that you have interacted

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with that have helped you continue to build that vision that you have?

Joshua: 00:07:38

I know you've said that you're about halfway through it and still working

Joshua: 00:07:41

on it, but have there been people along the way that have encouraged

Joshua: 00:07:44

you, and if so, can you list them, if you feel okay with that?

Jeremy: 00:07:48

Yeah, sure.

Jeremy: 00:07:49

When I first announced to my wife that I, essentially I wanted to quit my job and

Jeremy: 00:07:55

start a business, I mean, she looked at me with a mixture of horror amazement.

Jeremy: 00:08:02

I handled that particular conversation terribly.

Jeremy: 00:08:06

I did not set it up well.

Jeremy: 00:08:08

I've even done an interview on my podcast where maybe we'll come to talk about

Jeremy: 00:08:11

that, about how you have these sorts of conversations with your spouse, and my

Jeremy: 00:08:15

goodness, I wish I'd listened to that guy before I had this conversation.

Jeremy: 00:08:19

One of the first things that she said to me was that I should get some coaching

Jeremy: 00:08:23

to get some more meat on the bones, and so my first coach was a chap by the

Jeremy: 00:08:31

name of Ali Temple, who actually one of the very first guests on my podcast.

Jeremy: 00:08:38

If you want to find out what he's about, then episode five of my podcast.

Jeremy: 00:08:41

I've got a great interview with him.

Jeremy: 00:08:43

He's a force of nature and there were two big results of that line of coaching.

Jeremy: 00:08:50

The first one was that what I'd identified was that my biggest barrier to making

Jeremy: 00:08:57

any kind of change happen was time.

Joshua: 00:09:00

Mm.

Jeremy: 00:09:00

So I was working full-time as a lawyer.

Jeremy: 00:09:03

I had my daughter at the time was, I think less than a year old, something like that.

Jeremy: 00:09:10

My wife was taking the brunt of childcare and come weekend, guess what?

Jeremy: 00:09:13

It's daddy time.

Jeremy: 00:09:15

You can't really do much, and I was struggling with," where am I going to

Jeremy: 00:09:19

find the time to make anything happen?", and it was through getting coaching

Jeremy: 00:09:26

with Ali that I got the confidence to go to my employer and tell them

Jeremy: 00:09:31

that I wanted to work part-time.

Jeremy: 00:09:33

Now, working part-time, when you are, say, a mum who's coming back

Jeremy: 00:09:38

from maternity leave or when you are coming up to retirement, that's

Jeremy: 00:09:43

pretty normal for a I think I'd like just turned 40, 41, you know?

Jeremy: 00:09:51

I'm someone who's kind of like at the height of my powers,

Jeremy: 00:09:54

professionally speaking, and I'm saying, "Hey, guess what guys?

Jeremy: 00:09:56

I now want to drop down and work three days a week."

Jeremy: 00:09:59

That was a big mental shift for me just because it was so unusual and it is

Jeremy: 00:10:04

still pretty unusual and I had lots of fears and doubts as to whether or not

Jeremy: 00:10:10

I should do that, what was going to happen, were they going to accept it,

Jeremy: 00:10:14

that kind of thing, but I did it, I put in my request and it got accepted, and

Jeremy: 00:10:19

I've done that now for, I think, four years, give or take, so that was the

Jeremy: 00:10:25

first result of that set of coaching.

Jeremy: 00:10:28

The second result was starting with something, because I had lots of different

Jeremy: 00:10:36

business ideas going through my head.

Jeremy: 00:10:39

One of the lessons that I picked up from that book that I was talking

Jeremy: 00:10:42

about was that to come up with a business idea, you just look for

Jeremy: 00:10:46

problems, and a good place to start is the problems that you are facing.

Jeremy: 00:10:52

I was looking at various different challenges that I was facing in my life

Jeremy: 00:10:55

at the time and thinking, "Okay, so what could I do to serve or support that

Jeremy: 00:11:03

need?", and I remember the conversation with Ali and he just said, "Well,

Jeremy: 00:11:09

which one are you going to start with?"

Jeremy: 00:11:11

One of the ideas I'd had was a podcast all about career change,

Jeremy: 00:11:16

where I was going to interview people, either who'd been through

Jeremy: 00:11:18

career changes themselves, or coaches who'd helped them, and so I thought,

Jeremy: 00:11:24

"Yep, I'm going to start with that."

Jeremy: 00:11:27

At the time, my thinking was that would be the business itself, the podcast,

Jeremy: 00:11:33

because I knew that there were people who made money from podcasts, so I'd

Jeremy: 00:11:37

heard of people like, John Lee Dumas.

Jeremy: 00:11:40

He gets millions of downloads and he certainly used to get all his revenue

Jeremy: 00:11:43

from advertising and that kind of thing.

Joshua: 00:11:45

And me just starting out too, I know that, I'm looking forward to that.

Joshua: 00:11:48

I've had a few people support me already with just some of the episodes

Joshua: 00:11:51

that have come out, so I know exactly what you're talking about with that.

Joshua: 00:11:54

But yeah, it's cool.

Jeremy: 00:11:56

Yeah.

Jeremy: 00:11:56

I mean that was certainly the idea and I'd done the maths and I thought,

Jeremy: 00:11:59

"You know, a few tens of thousands of downloads a week and I can do that."

Jeremy: 00:12:03

As you probably know, as a podcaster who's just started out, especially when you're

Jeremy: 00:12:07

coming from a position of absolute zero, where nobody knows who you are, getting

Jeremy: 00:12:13

hundreds or even tens of downloads is an achievement, let alone tens of thousands.

Jeremy: 00:12:18

I kind of realized that to get to a business through those means was going to

Jeremy: 00:12:24

be really, really quite challenging, and it probably would've put me in the top,

Jeremy: 00:12:28

I don't know, two or three, maybe even 1% of podcasters by downloads to do that.

Jeremy: 00:12:34

I did the podcast and I still do the podcast, but it was after doing that for

Jeremy: 00:12:39

a while that I realized that I loved it.

Jeremy: 00:12:42

I was speaking to some fantastic people and getting some great personal advice

Jeremy: 00:12:47

myself as well as providing fantastic resources for other people, but I realized

Jeremy: 00:12:54

that it wasn't going to be the thing that enabled me to quit the lawyer job.

Jeremy: 00:13:01

It wasn't going to be the business that was making money, and so that

Jeremy: 00:13:06

led to the second round of coaching that I had with a different coach.

Jeremy: 00:13:11

One of the great things about a podcast is that you get to speak to all sorts

Jeremy: 00:13:16

of random people, and I'd had this fantastic conversation with a coach who'd

Jeremy: 00:13:22

messaged me saying, "Hey, can I be on your podcast?", and I said, "Oh yeah, sure."

Jeremy: 00:13:26

We had a great conversation and it was effectively her audition.

Jeremy: 00:13:30

I mean, it wasn't at the time, but when I knew that I needed a second

Jeremy: 00:13:34

round of coaching, just my mind kept on going back to her and thinking,

Jeremy: 00:13:38

"Yeah, yeah, she'll be a good person."

Jeremy: 00:13:40

so her name was, Eleanor Radavich, I think it was episode 49, something like that-

Joshua: 00:13:47

I have to interrupt and say this because I find this really fascinating in

Joshua: 00:13:51

that you are meeting people, because I've been meeting people just even starting

Joshua: 00:13:56

out, and I've been blown away by even some of our guests that I've had on

Joshua: 00:14:01

Speaking From The Heart, that has allowed me to really open my own mindset, and

Joshua: 00:14:06

I never came into this thinking, "Well, I know I really want to have people

Joshua: 00:14:11

come and learn about what personal and professional development is all about",

Joshua: 00:14:17

but what I didn't realize was I was being schooled on personal and professional

Joshua: 00:14:21

development in the theme of what I do and I really love hearing this from you,

Joshua: 00:14:27

because it makes me resonate with the fact that we all have different people

Joshua: 00:14:31

that influence us in our lives, but go on with your second coach because I'm

Joshua: 00:14:35

really curious about what they showed you.

Jeremy: 00:14:39

It was a much more structured approach, so it was a longer program.

Jeremy: 00:14:45

She started out sending me loads of different exercises to piece together

Jeremy: 00:14:52

the picture of who is Jeremy Cline, so they were exercises on strengths,

Jeremy: 00:15:00

there was looking at career history, kind of imagining: what were the things

Jeremy: 00:15:05

I'd wanted to do when I was a kid?

Jeremy: 00:15:07

What was the sorts of things I'd do if money was no object?

Jeremy: 00:15:10

That sort of thing, and the set of exercises, which were probably the

Jeremy: 00:15:17

real aha moment, were the exercises which uncovered my own personal values,

Jeremy: 00:15:24

so the things which are important to me, valuable to me, what would

Jeremy: 00:15:29

I really need out of my own career and my interactions with people.

Jeremy: 00:15:35

It was interesting because just before I'd started that coaching, I had started

Jeremy: 00:15:39

another line of business alongside the podcast, which was related to podcasts.

Jeremy: 00:15:44

On my own podcast, I provide full transcripts and I'm

Jeremy: 00:15:48

quite panicky about them.

Jeremy: 00:15:50

I want them to be readable in their own right, and some of the artificial

Jeremy: 00:15:55

intelligence ones, they kind of go 85%, 90% of the way, but you can't really read

Jeremy: 00:16:01

them so I got a system basically using an AI tool, then getting a VA to go through

Jeremy: 00:16:07

and tidy them up, and I realized that that was actually scalable and I could start

Jeremy: 00:16:12

offering it to other podcasters as a done for you, fixed price, solution, and I even

Jeremy: 00:16:20

got as far as people paying me for it, and I realized pretty swiftly that I hated it.

Jeremy: 00:16:26

It was stressing me out.

Jeremy: 00:16:27

It was making me miserable.

Jeremy: 00:16:28

I wasn't enjoying it, and it was when I did the values exercise that I

Jeremy: 00:16:33

realized that my top number one value was social connection, community,

Jeremy: 00:16:41

interacting with other people.

Jeremy: 00:16:42

I'm not a lone wolf person who will just shut themselves in a

Jeremy: 00:16:45

room and get on with the work.

Jeremy: 00:16:47

I thrive when I am connecting to and communicating with other people.

Joshua: 00:16:52

I just want to let the audience know Jeremy is not wearing a white

Joshua: 00:16:55

coat because I know that he could be a mad scientist for putting this

Joshua: 00:16:58

all together, but I have to say that because I think all of us think that

Joshua: 00:17:04

we go behind the scenes, both of us being podcasters and go, "Oh, well here

Joshua: 00:17:09

comes the magical experiment that we're going to do that makes this really

Joshua: 00:17:12

work.", and that's not necessarily true.

Joshua: 00:17:14

It's just about having conversation, which is what I really enjoy doing,

Joshua: 00:17:18

especially when I talk to my guests, so I think it's really important that we have

Joshua: 00:17:23

that connection as opposed to having a, well, "Here's my list of questions for

Joshua: 00:17:29

you and seeing what you say to each one, and if it's just one sentence, that's

Joshua: 00:17:33

okay, because I got 50 more that I got to choose from", but no, it's not about that.

Joshua: 00:17:37

It's about being able to make the contact with people too.

Jeremy: 00:17:41

Yeah, and it was clear to me that that had to be an integral part

Jeremy: 00:17:46

of whatever business I did and it was through that second round of coaching that

Jeremy: 00:17:53

I decided that coaching was going to be the thing which I wanted to try myself.

Jeremy: 00:17:58

I'd got a lot out of it.

Jeremy: 00:18:00

I had a much better idea of what coaching was and what it wasn't, because I'd

Jeremy: 00:18:04

kind of been put off the idea, but I think, because originally I thought

Jeremy: 00:18:08

that it was just about advising people.

Jeremy: 00:18:10

People would tell you their problems and you'd tell 'em the solutions, and I

Jeremy: 00:18:13

realize now that it's so far from that and it's so much more about helping

Jeremy: 00:18:17

people to find their own solutions and-

Joshua: 00:18:20

Can we talk about that for a moment, because I'm really curious

Joshua: 00:18:23

on your thoughts because being a coach myself, I normally thought in

Joshua: 00:18:28

the beginning too, the same premise.

Joshua: 00:18:30

"Yeah, I'm just going to sit here and listen to them, and then I'll just tell

Joshua: 00:18:33

them my solution", but it was so much more because now after working with

Joshua: 00:18:38

a few people over the course of the several months that I've been open,

Joshua: 00:18:42

it's been about more of understanding what that situation is, empathizing and

Joshua: 00:18:48

also understanding that one solution does not solve everybody's problems.

Joshua: 00:18:53

There's unique approaches to each of those, so with that said, I know

Joshua: 00:18:57

that you and I are both in similar fields, but you are in a completely

Joshua: 00:19:01

different arena when it comes to that.

Joshua: 00:19:04

When you are coaching someone, is there something that you look for or is there

Joshua: 00:19:08

something that you try to draw out of someone so that you can have a better

Joshua: 00:19:12

understanding of how to work with them?

Joshua: 00:19:14

In other words, is there something that you try to get from the

Joshua: 00:19:19

beginning that helps you to work with them to be successful?

Joshua: 00:19:23

Where are those endeavors or what those goals are?

Jeremy: 00:19:27

It's kind of a bit of a two-stage approach, I guess.

Jeremy: 00:19:31

One is that I have learned from the coaching that I had that doing a lot

Jeremy: 00:19:37

of self-reflection and self-knowledge, particularly if they're around

Jeremy: 00:19:41

exercises that help draw that out.

Jeremy: 00:19:43

My favorite analogy, which I heard on another podcast and I have stolen and

Jeremy: 00:19:49

repeated back to people on numerous occasions is the idea of when you go

Jeremy: 00:19:53

into a great big shopping mall for the first time and you don't really know

Jeremy: 00:19:57

where you're going, and the first thing you do is you go to the map that's at

Jeremy: 00:20:01

the bottom of the escalators or the entrance doors, and you look for the

Jeremy: 00:20:04

dot that says you are here, and that's really where I see all this stuff about

Jeremy: 00:20:10

understanding your strengths, your weaknesses, your personal saboteur,

Jeremy: 00:20:13

your personal saboteurs, your values, that kind of thing, and so I always

Jeremy: 00:20:18

encourage my clients to start with that.

Jeremy: 00:20:22

Then it's very much what's the client bringing to the conversation?

Jeremy: 00:20:30

Where are they at the moment, and just curiosity is one of, I think, the most

Jeremy: 00:20:36

important strengths and characteristics of a coach, so why are they saying that?

Jeremy: 00:20:41

Why is it going in that direction?

Jeremy: 00:20:43

I mean, just to give you a quick example, my coaching is around

Jeremy: 00:20:47

careers, but also small businesses.

Jeremy: 00:20:50

I've got clients who are similar to me actually.

Jeremy: 00:20:53

They're making the transition from having a job to starting their own businesses

Jeremy: 00:20:58

and one of them, she was talking to me about her different packages, like she

Jeremy: 00:21:06

was describing three different packages, so like her sort of entry, her mid-level

Jeremy: 00:21:09

one and her top one, and we've been working together for quite some time

Jeremy: 00:21:13

and this was the first time that she'd talked about that and I pressed her on

Jeremy: 00:21:19

so, "Why are you looking to offer these three different packages, because it

Jeremy: 00:21:24

sounds to me like really the service that you want to offer is just the top tier.

Jeremy: 00:21:28

You don't really want to offer these", and it came out that she was offering

Jeremy: 00:21:34

those because she thought she should, because she'd seen other people do

Jeremy: 00:21:38

them, but it wasn't necessarily what she really wanted to do, and so by the

Jeremy: 00:21:43

end of the conversation, she'd realized that she was kind of only doing it

Jeremy: 00:21:47

because she thought that was ever what everyone did, but it wasn't really

Jeremy: 00:21:51

what she wanted to do and so now she's revisiting that and looking at the

Jeremy: 00:21:56

possibility that here's the service that I offer, if that's right for you, great.

Jeremy: 00:21:59

If not, well, I'm sure there's other people who can help.

Jeremy: 00:22:02

A second example, someone who's looking to get into men's coaching and I asked

Jeremy: 00:22:08

him when he might want to get his first clients, and he said, "Oh, you know,

Jeremy: 00:22:13

maybe three months from now", and we were saying, "Well, so what do you need

Jeremy: 00:22:15

before you get your first clients?", and he was saying, "Well, I need to get my

Jeremy: 00:22:18

website up and Facebook page and all that kind of stuff", and I said to him, "so

Jeremy: 00:22:23

what do you really need to get your first few clients?", and he said, "I suppose

Jeremy: 00:22:28

a framework for maybe the first couple of coaching sessions and some clients.",

Jeremy: 00:22:34

and so I said to him, "So who do you already know who you could potentially

Jeremy: 00:22:39

work with and what would you need to do to get yourself into a position where you

Jeremy: 00:22:43

could do the first two coaching sessions with him?", and he realized that he

Jeremy: 00:22:46

could do that, not in three months, but in about three weeks if that, so, it's

Jeremy: 00:22:50

just picking up these things and kind of going, "what makes you say that?"

Joshua: 00:22:56

I had to smile because I had that same experience of

Joshua: 00:23:01

the two examples that you gave.

Joshua: 00:23:03

The first one being, "Why am I offering these at different tiers?", because

Joshua: 00:23:08

what I've been finding out is, yeah, I've been hearing all these stereotype

Joshua: 00:23:12

coaches going, "Yeah, you should offer in tiers."; no, I don't need to.

Joshua: 00:23:17

I am my own unique business owner, and I've been thinking a lot more about how

Joshua: 00:23:21

to approach those sort of things as well, but at the same token, identify with

Joshua: 00:23:26

your second example, because I know that sometimes starting out, you have, what

Joshua: 00:23:32

my audience has heard so much about, I'm sure your audience has heard so

Joshua: 00:23:36

much about, especially on your podcast, about imposter syndrome, and I know that

Joshua: 00:23:42

I've had to overcome that with how can I help clients become better versions

Joshua: 00:23:48

of themselves, so I have to not only deconstruct why they are thinking the

Joshua: 00:23:54

way they are thinking, but I've been able to practice that with a few people, even

Joshua: 00:23:58

outside of quiet sessions because I've realized that, "Oh, this is universal.

Joshua: 00:24:03

I can make this applicable and see where those reactions are and if I see

Joshua: 00:24:08

that it doesn't work, I'll just have a little checkbox saying, subject not

Joshua: 00:24:11

able to respond to this sort of stimuli.

Joshua: 00:24:14

Try again", so I have the notes down in my head of what those things are.

Joshua: 00:24:20

Jeremy, we're almost out of time, and I want to ask you one more question that

Joshua: 00:24:24

I had about just you and the shift that you've had in your life, because for

Joshua: 00:24:32

some people, It can be very fearful to be able to start something like this,

Joshua: 00:24:38

and you definitely shared that earlier with your wife having that expression

Joshua: 00:24:42

of, "I'm going to do this and I know that it's probably not safe, but I want

Joshua: 00:24:46

to do this because I am feeling it's more important that I feel fulfilled."

Joshua: 00:24:52

Going through that transition and having those things happen to you the way

Joshua: 00:24:57

that has happened, is there anything that you would've done differently,

Joshua: 00:25:01

that you would've changed, that maybe you should have done this sort of step

Joshua: 00:25:06

before this other step, or maybe you should have talked to this other person

Joshua: 00:25:10

before the other person sort of thing.

Joshua: 00:25:14

Is there anything that you, in other words, are there things that you

Joshua: 00:25:18

regret that you would wish that you could take back, and if so, could

Joshua: 00:25:22

you give us just one of those things?

Jeremy: 00:25:25

The biggest change game changer for me has been getting coached myself.

Jeremy: 00:25:32

Now I realize that people are listening to me and going, "Oh, he's a coach.

Jeremy: 00:25:36

Of course he would say that", but genuinely that's been responsible

Jeremy: 00:25:40

for the biggest leaps forward, and I wish that I had done it sooner and

Jeremy: 00:25:48

even after the first one done it in more depth, I'm saying this to you

Jeremy: 00:25:53

now and I've kind of been thinking, "Yeah, you know what, I'm probably

Jeremy: 00:25:56

ready for my third round of coaching."

Jeremy: 00:25:58

I mean, there are various reasons why I'm just at the moment kind of going,

Jeremy: 00:26:01

"I can't take that on just at the moment", because there's my own sort of

Jeremy: 00:26:04

personal stamina and not wanting to put something else on the stove when all

Jeremy: 00:26:08

the hot plates are already taken up.

Joshua: 00:26:09

I have a recommendation for that third coach, just in case you're

Joshua: 00:26:12

curious, and I'm, for those that can't see obviously, because this is an

Joshua: 00:26:15

audio recording I'm pointing to myself.

Joshua: 00:26:19

I'm just teasing Jeremy.

Jeremy: 00:26:22

But, yeah, no, it's doing that work on myself, understanding myself

Jeremy: 00:26:26

a bit sooner it would've probably propelled me much further forward.

Jeremy: 00:26:30

I said to you that it was probably about five years ago that I was first

Jeremy: 00:26:34

thinking in these terms, and yeah, I do occasionally find myself looking

Jeremy: 00:26:39

back and thinking, "Oh, five years, I don't feel like I've got very far

Jeremy: 00:26:43

in that time.", but it is what it is.

Jeremy: 00:26:45

It's where I've got to, can't change the past, anything like

Jeremy: 00:26:49

that, but with hindsight, working more with a coach probably would

Jeremy: 00:26:55

have shortened the timeframe to get me where I am now and even beyond.

Joshua: 00:27:01

Yet, I feel that when I listen to you and listen to these things that

Joshua: 00:27:06

you've navigated through with yourself and seeing where you're at, Jeremy, I'm

Joshua: 00:27:12

really impressed because I could say the same thing to myself that I wish about

Joshua: 00:27:17

10 years ago in my twenties, I would've started to reach out to a coach, but I

Joshua: 00:27:21

wasn't mentally prepared for what those challenges would be, and I think it's

Joshua: 00:27:26

all about having the right mindset, but also having the openness, and I

Joshua: 00:27:32

think you talked about that too, about being able to accept that constructive

Joshua: 00:27:37

feedback, to be able to understand the importance of what that person is saying

Joshua: 00:27:43

and why that person is saying it, because sometimes we miss the why question.

Joshua: 00:27:48

We think that it's a judgment when someone says and makes that comment

Joshua: 00:27:53

and that's not necessarily the case.

Joshua: 00:27:55

We're just giving something that we see as either what we are telling ourselves

Joshua: 00:28:00

are the facts or the stories and the stories are often the assumptions that

Joshua: 00:28:04

we make about each other or even about the things that we're going through,

Joshua: 00:28:08

so I think that you've come very far to dispel those stories, and even for that

Joshua: 00:28:14

matter, change some of the things that we can even think about as a culture

Joshua: 00:28:18

today, which leading into that, you have a podcast that kind of explores all those

Joshua: 00:28:23

different things and you also have your own business, and I want to give you

Joshua: 00:28:27

the last few minutes to let our audience know if they're really curious about

Joshua: 00:28:31

reaching out to you, wanting to have a different perspective, because let's

Joshua: 00:28:35

face it, yes, Jeremy is my competition, everybody, but here's the deal.

Joshua: 00:28:41

He's not my competition for the sole fact that we all bring different things to

Joshua: 00:28:46

the table as it comes to our approaches and that's why Jeremy's my friend, in

Joshua: 00:28:51

this whole entire scheme of things.

Joshua: 00:28:53

It's not any competition whatsoever, so Jeremy, I want

Joshua: 00:28:56

you to proudly promote yourself.

Joshua: 00:28:58

I'll give you the last few minutes.

Jeremy: 00:29:00

Thank you, and I just wanted to pick up on the a point you were saying

Jeremy: 00:29:03

earlier about sort of being in the right place, allowing yourself to be vulnerable.

Jeremy: 00:29:07

That's probably one of the biggest things as well, is just recognizing that you

Jeremy: 00:29:12

don't know everything and that's okay and allowing others to help you that's

Jeremy: 00:29:17

absolutely invaluable, and I think when you're in your, I dunno, when you're

Jeremy: 00:29:21

in your early or mid thirties, you kind of assume that you know everything, and

Jeremy: 00:29:23

then as you get what do you realize that, maybe that's not the case, but anyway, I

Jeremy: 00:29:27

need to take you off on your invitation.

Jeremy: 00:29:29

My podcast is called Change Work Life.

Jeremy: 00:29:34

My website, it's also Change Work Life, and that's all one word,

Jeremy: 00:29:39

ChangeWorkLife, so there's no gaps, no hyphens, no spaces, nothing like that.

Jeremy: 00:29:42

It's ChangeWorkLife.com.

Jeremy: 00:29:45

You can find me on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Facebook, and it's

Jeremy: 00:29:51

at Change Work Life on all of those.

Jeremy: 00:29:54

My podcast is for anyone who just feels a bit stuck in their career

Jeremy: 00:30:01

or even their small business.

Jeremy: 00:30:04

It could be that you're a small business owner and it's just

Jeremy: 00:30:07

not quite working for you.

Jeremy: 00:30:08

It's just not going the way you'd like to.

Jeremy: 00:30:11

My guests are people who've been through radical career

Jeremy: 00:30:15

changes themselves, coaches.

Jeremy: 00:30:17

We cover all sorts about mindsets.

Jeremy: 00:30:20

We do resumes and interview skills.

Jeremy: 00:30:22

We do salary negotiation, we do meditation, we do burnouts, we do how

Jeremy: 00:30:28

do you pick the best tool for the job.

Jeremy: 00:30:30

It's all about helping you enjoy a more satisfying and fulfilling working life.

Jeremy: 00:30:36

I've got a couple of exercises, which are a really great place if you want to

Jeremy: 00:30:41

start with the sort of the, you are here, introspection I was talking about, and if

Jeremy: 00:30:46

you go to changeworklife.com/happy, that's H A P P Y, changeworklife.com/happy,

Jeremy: 00:30:52

there's a couple of exercises there and if you want to find out a bit

Jeremy: 00:30:57

about the coaching, explore that.

Jeremy: 00:30:59

I offer free 30 minute introductory coaching calls.

Jeremy: 00:31:04

There's a form on my website, changeworklife.com/coaching

Jeremy: 00:31:09

if you're interested in that.

Jeremy: 00:31:10

I'll stop there.

Jeremy: 00:31:11

Hopefully you'll pull all the links in the show notes because I've just

Jeremy: 00:31:13

bombarded people with a load of stuff and they probably aren't in proximity

Jeremy: 00:31:17

of a piece of paper and a pen.

Joshua: 00:31:19

Absolutely.

Joshua: 00:31:20

I will put all of that in the episode notes because I certainly want

Joshua: 00:31:23

people to hear it, and then want to go check it out too, so they can

Joshua: 00:31:28

easily access all of that, but I appreciate you sharing all of that.

Joshua: 00:31:32

Jeremy, I will tell you this being that you are yet another international

Joshua: 00:31:37

guest, it's really nice to hear that we all have similar struggles no matter

Joshua: 00:31:43

where we're at in the world and that we know that there are tools in our

Joshua: 00:31:49

toolbox that we can pull out to help us navigate through them, and you even have

Joshua: 00:31:55

those tools on your website to even get started with that, which I'll personally

Joshua: 00:31:59

check out myself because I'm always about looking for a happier perspective.

Joshua: 00:32:04

I'm always looking for ways in which I can expand my mindset because

Joshua: 00:32:09

that's just what I've been through, and I know my audience will certainly

Joshua: 00:32:13

appreciate that as well, so, Jeremy, I'll say this from over here in America.

Joshua: 00:32:18

Thanks for Speaking From The Heart with us today, and I really appreciated

Joshua: 00:32:22

you sharing your insights to us all.

Joshua: 00:32:26

I want to thank Jeremy again for our conversation because he not only realized

Joshua: 00:32:31

what I've been working on, we actually had some really great conversation

Joshua: 00:32:35

before and after about some of the struggles that we have because of our

Joshua: 00:32:40

synergies that we work on together as it relates to helping people find

Joshua: 00:32:44

the best versions of themselves.

Joshua: 00:32:47

You see, Jeremy and I are not sworn enemies looking for those

Joshua: 00:32:52

opportunities to find as many clients as possible and say that we're the

Joshua: 00:32:56

best coach in the whole entire world.

Joshua: 00:32:59

"Yeah, we got the crown.

Joshua: 00:33:00

We can do this."

Joshua: 00:33:03

I find that quite ironic though, because I am not in the United Kingdom

Joshua: 00:33:08

and there is no such thing as finding a crown when it comes to coaching.

Joshua: 00:33:15

I love that we have both similar approaches when it comes to understanding

Joshua: 00:33:19

and working with different people, not only in their backgrounds, but

Joshua: 00:33:23

also what really makes them tick.

Joshua: 00:33:26

Finding that career that is the most fulfilling is often the most challenging

Joshua: 00:33:30

thing that we can ever do in our lives, and I know for myself, being that I have

Joshua: 00:33:35

switched careers several times within state government, and even when I was

Joshua: 00:33:40

getting started before that, before my career with state government, it

Joshua: 00:33:45

can be very challenging in a world of endless possibilities, but it always

comes back to: 00:33:51

Am I feeling fulfilled?

comes back to: 00:33:55

Is it paying the bills?

comes back to: 00:33:57

Is it making everybody around me satisfied my kids, my family, my friends?

comes back to: 00:34:06

Those that are looking at me from far away.

comes back to: 00:34:10

I think it's very hard to manage all those different expectations and think

comes back to: 00:34:15

that we have all these different types of people that are going to be involved,

comes back to: 00:34:19

that will help us to understand and fulfill what is truly needed in our lives.

comes back to: 00:34:25

I know it can be very challenging.

comes back to: 00:34:28

Looking at where you are, looking at where you can potentially go.

comes back to: 00:34:34

Looking at all the things that are in between, it could be so overwhelming.

comes back to: 00:34:37

The resumes, the interview questions, the read on people and their personality

comes back to: 00:34:42

types, knowing what to expect and understanding all the different things

comes back to: 00:34:47

that are involved with knowledge, skills, abilities, expectations, job

comes back to: 00:34:52

descriptions, onboarding benefits.

comes back to: 00:34:55

I know I can be very overwhelming.

comes back to: 00:34:59

I know for me it was very overwhelming starting out in my teenager years.

comes back to: 00:35:05

It reminds me of a job that I had at my high school starting out as a janitorial

comes back to: 00:35:10

assistant to the main janitorial staff.

The mission: 00:35:14

clean the schools so that they're ready for the next school year.

The mission: 00:35:21

Going in one classroom to the next having my bucket in hand with a sponge, wiping

The mission: 00:35:27

down baseboards, wiping down tables, wiping down counters, cleaning the cobwebs

The mission: 00:35:33

from the corner of the room because they haven't been touched in over 12 months.

The mission: 00:35:38

It was a disgusting job.

The mission: 00:35:42

Getting on the floor with a scrub brush and scrubbing the tiles and the

The mission: 00:35:45

gym floors, the locker rooms, all the different places, the art rooms that

The mission: 00:35:50

had the paint splattered all across the walls, having all the different types of

The mission: 00:35:54

equipment to wash down at the end of the day, making fun of me because I didn't

The mission: 00:35:58

do a certain thing, getting yelled at by my boss saying, "You missed a spot."

The mission: 00:36:04

I know that these jobs that we often have starting out are not

The mission: 00:36:09

the very best, and they're very low paying, but you know what they do?

The mission: 00:36:15

They build character.

The mission: 00:36:17

They build the expectation of what we can potentially become in our lives, whether

The mission: 00:36:22

that is being a career of our choosing, whether that is being a stay-at-home

The mission: 00:36:27

mom or dad, whether that is being something that we never thought possible.

The mission: 00:36:33

Maybe it's even becoming a superhero of our own.

The mission: 00:36:37

I know that for many of us, just getting started can be very

The mission: 00:36:40

tough, but isn't that the truth?

The mission: 00:36:45

Isn't that the whole point?

The mission: 00:36:47

Isn't that supposed to encourage and push us into the direction

The mission: 00:36:50

that we never thought possible?

The mission: 00:36:53

Can it help us to be able to understand and be influenced by all the things

The mission: 00:36:58

that are around us to be able to look at ourselves and look at where

The mission: 00:37:02

we're at, where we look at the map of you are here, and being able

The mission: 00:37:07

to set up the infrastructure from there to continue building forward.

The mission: 00:37:12

I respect Jeremy.

The mission: 00:37:15

I respect him so much because it's an opportunity for all of us to understand

The mission: 00:37:19

and fulfill what is truly necessary for us to become really the ultimate

The mission: 00:37:25

epiphany of what this is all about.

The mission: 00:37:30

It means becoming the best version of who we are and what we can

The mission: 00:37:35

be, and that can be very scary.

The mission: 00:37:37

It means that we have to take risk.

The mission: 00:37:39

It means pushing ourselves to the edge of the abyss, falling into it perhaps,

The mission: 00:37:44

and then having to crawl ourselves back out, and say to ourselves, "Yes,

The mission: 00:37:48

I'm going to get back, one more time.

The mission: 00:37:50

I'm going to make money.

The mission: 00:37:52

I am going to support my family.

The mission: 00:37:54

I am going to feel satisfied."

The mission: 00:37:59

Sometimes having a different perspective, just like what Jeremy and I do

The mission: 00:38:03

is really what is most important.

The mission: 00:38:06

I love the fact that he was very open with his company about wanting to change

The mission: 00:38:11

his hours; to be able to prioritize.

The mission: 00:38:14

Not many companies might do that in the United States, but they certainly have

The mission: 00:38:17

a lot of flexibility in other areas and even in the United States, there are

The mission: 00:38:22

people that do care, there are business owners that want to see you grow, there

The mission: 00:38:26

are people that want to help you out no matter where you're at in your life.

The mission: 00:38:30

They want to see you thrive, and that is what is the key, is all about having that

The mission: 00:38:36

human centeredness as many of my guests have talked about even before Jeremy.

The mission: 00:38:42

It is all about looking at how we can do things and adjust the time that we

The mission: 00:38:48

have to address those problems that are involved, but it's always about a constant

The mission: 00:38:54

evolution of learning and growing.

The mission: 00:38:57

We have to realize that we can never settle for less, but also means

The mission: 00:39:03

understanding too, that we can be able to help others to see where that light is.

The mission: 00:39:11

That light might be far away, and I know for Jeremy and other people, It

The mission: 00:39:16

can be very tough to understand and even sometimes get that satisfaction

The mission: 00:39:21

every day, but that's the whole point, ladies and gentlemen.

The mission: 00:39:25

It is about the long journey that can exist, and sometimes even having

The mission: 00:39:30

those people that are behind us, we sometimes not even find those

The mission: 00:39:33

answers for a very long time.

The mission: 00:39:36

I have clients that have even come through my doors here in the United

The mission: 00:39:39

States, often asking the same question of: Where do I go from here?

The mission: 00:39:45

What can I possibly do with my life now?

The mission: 00:39:49

I have those questions asked of people of all different ages and all kinds

The mission: 00:39:53

of different backgrounds, all kinds of different places, because here's

The mission: 00:39:59

the thing, it is a universal problem.

The mission: 00:40:02

Sometimes entering into a job that we thought we really liked,

The mission: 00:40:07

five years later, we don't like.

The mission: 00:40:10

10 years go by though.

The mission: 00:40:12

15 more years.

The mission: 00:40:14

20 more years, 30 more years.

The mission: 00:40:19

It gets to be very lonely at the edge of our age, and then it

The mission: 00:40:26

really separates us from really the opportunities that we could potentially

The mission: 00:40:29

have because we think it's too late.

The mission: 00:40:35

I remember sharing in one episode where I did talk about the fact that

The mission: 00:40:39

I lived that moment on a factory floor when I was 19 years of age.

The mission: 00:40:45

The women there that I worked with were very afraid of being able to

The mission: 00:40:50

take that challenge because they have only known that life that they've

The mission: 00:40:54

been doing for that period of time.

The mission: 00:40:57

They never wanted to take another risk.

The mission: 00:41:00

They didn't want to change, and it wasn't because they didn't want to, it was

The mission: 00:41:05

because of the circumstances in which they couldn't, but was that really the

The mission: 00:41:11

question that they had to ask themselves?

The mission: 00:41:15

I look at that moment in my life almost 16, 17 years later, and I still say

The mission: 00:41:21

to myself that I said the right thing, and I still believe that we always

The mission: 00:41:24

have that opportunity to change, to pivot, to make something better of

The mission: 00:41:29

ourselves so that we're not sitting on Sundays, thinking about what we are

The mission: 00:41:34

going to walk into on a Monday morning.

The mission: 00:41:37

I'm not going to sit back and think about what those possibilities

The mission: 00:41:41

and those conversations could be.

The mission: 00:41:43

I'm not going to sit at the age of 70 or 80 thinking, "Is this really what I

The mission: 00:41:48

did for the last few moments of my life?

The mission: 00:41:52

Is this really what I did for the last several years of my life?"

The mission: 00:41:57

I want to be able to say that I was fulfilled, I was satisfied.

The mission: 00:42:01

I want to feel encouraged that I did the right thing, and I know all of you will

The mission: 00:42:06

want to do something similar, but it's all about taking that first step of making a

The mission: 00:42:13

change when sometimes change can be scary, but it doesn't have to be because there

The mission: 00:42:19

are people just like Jeremy and I, that can change our work and our life to become

The mission: 00:42:26

something that we never thought we could potentially be and we have those choices,

The mission: 00:42:32

and as long as we remember that we have choices, nothing can stand in our way,

The mission: 00:42:38

no matter where we're at in the world.

The mission: 00:42:41

Thanks for listening to episode number 33 of Speaking From the

The mission: 00:42:44

Heart, and I look forward to hearing from your heart very soon.

Outro: 00:42:49

Thanks for listening.

Outro: 00:42:50

For more information about our podcast and future shows, search for Speaking From

Outro: 00:42:54

The Heart to subscribe and be notified wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Outro: 00:42:59

Visit us at www.yourspeakingvoice.biz for more information about potential

Outro: 00:43:05

services that can help you create the best version of yourself.