Episode 161
Episode #156 - Unlearning & Becoming Tolerable, Curious Individuals: An Interview With Dr. Lulu
Throughout time, it has been stereotyped that anyone that has a differing thought about a person, concept, theory, or even the world, was ridiculed and thought of as a "radical thinker." Even inventors, philosophers, and other composers have been heavily criticized for their level of forethought and ability to think of ideas that challenge what the traditional, "conservative" thoughts are that society (or culture) have. However, are they really "radical thinkers?" Have we lost our touch, or ability to rationalize in a way that creates curiosity? Today's impactful, eye-opening episode with the Owner of Dr. Lulu's Coaching & Consulting Lounge, Dr. Lulu, who has been featured on notable programs such as Oprah Daily, CBS This Morning, NBC, and other networks, describes what it means to have challenging thoughts and still be accepted by those around us. If we are willing to challenge the status quo, and be willing to have open conversations that shift perspectives, it can challenge many of the debates that we are having today about society, ourselves, and even the world for that matter.
*PLEASE NOTE: Speaking From The Heart, from the very beginning, is accepting of all backgrounds, viewpoints, and perspectives. This episode features discussions of transgender, LGBTQ+ rights, and other related conversations that are openly accepting, and does not discriminate or tolerate hate. We are appreciative of the viewpoints that are always covered on our show, and encourage you to seek out ways in which you can learn from today's episode how to have conversations about these types of subjects with your loved ones.
Guest Bio
Dr. Lulu is a multiple award-winning Queer, Nigerian-born pediatrician, LGBTQ+ educator, corporate consultant, CEO of Dr. Lulu’s Coaching & Consulting Lounge and chief host of Moms 4 Trans Kids Podcast. She is a mother of 3, one of whom is a transgender young adult woman. In addition to her family-centered gender-affirming coaching & consulting practice; Dr. Lulu’s PRIDE Corner (which helps families navigate the psychosocial aspects of raising gender-diverse youth), she also helps support employee-parents at the workplace. Her “Allies in White Coats” program trains culturally competent physician-allies to help mitigate health inequities plaguing the LGBTQ + community.
Website: https://www.dr-lulu.com
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Intro/Outro By: Michael Dugan, Podcast Host: Voice4Chefs
Transcript
Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and
2
:determination all converge into
an amazing, heartfelt experience.
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:This is Speaking From The Heart.
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:Joshua: Welcome back to episode
number 156 of Speaking From The Heart.
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:Today, we have Dr.
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:Lulu, and Dr.
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:Lulu is a multiple award winning queer,
Nigerian born pediatrician, LGBTQ plus
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:educator, corporate consultant, CEO of Dr.
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:Lulu's Coaching and Consulting Lounge, and
chief host of Moms for Trans Kids podcast.
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:She is a mother of three, one of whom
is a transgender young adult woman.
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:In addition to her family
centered, gender affirming coaching
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:and consulting practice, Dr.
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:Lulu's Pride Corner, which helps
families navigate the psychosocial
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:aspects of raising gender diverse
youth, she also helps support
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:employee parents at the workplace.
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:Her quote, Allies In White Coats
unquote, program trains culturally
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:competent physician allies to
help mitigate health inequities
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:plaguing the LGBTQ plus community.
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:I have to say, I haven't
had somebody like Dr.
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:Lulu on my show yet, and she certainly
proves her worth, given the fact
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:that she's been featured on so many
other shows throughout her time.
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:Some of those things include being on
Oprah, CBS This Morning, NBC, ABC, all
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:the different types of platforms, has
allowed her to have a voice unlike any
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:voice that I've had yet on the show,
and you're going to find that some of
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:the topics that she covers really dig
deep into some of the things that we're
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:even talking about in today's society.
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:Regardless of your viewpoints,
regardless of what you might
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:consider as some of your challenging
beliefs about some of the topics Dr.
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:Lulu covers, I think that she really
digs deep into something that we really
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:need to start having a conversation
about, which is learning how to foster
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:our own different opinions, beating to
our own drum, being a radical thinker,
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:and sometimes, knowing when the limits
are, but inviting in new information
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:so that it can come out, because when
we are able to come out, just like what
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:she has even mentioned about her one
child today, it might actually rethink
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:your personal journey towards not only
developing yourself, but also the best
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:version of everyone else around you.
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:But with that, let's go to the episode.
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:Alright, we're here with Dr.
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:Lulu.
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:Doctor!
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:Thanks for sharing your
heart with us today.
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:Dr. Lulu: Thank you so much
for having me on the show.
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:I appreciate it.
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:Joshua: Absolutely.
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:I appreciate you taking some time
out of your very, very busy schedule.
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:I am really excited that you're here.
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:We were just talking about that before you
even started about many of the things that
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:you got going on, and I really appreciate
you carving this out, but before I
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:even start with my first question, I
want to tell you, thank you so much for
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:your military service to our country.
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:It's very much appreciated.
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:Dr. Lulu: Thank you.
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:I only did four years and I got out,
but there were four good years, and
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:I showed up every day with my full
chest, like we say in Nigeria, so it
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:was fun while it lasted, and then,
sometimes it's time to move on, so I am.
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:Joshua: Absolutely.
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:It is always time to find the
new adventure, but nevertheless,
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:those are four years that you
sacrificed, so I appreciate that.
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:Dr.
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:Lulu, I really want to dig into actually
you being Nigerian born, and then coming,
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:and living in the United States and
even serving in the military, so I was
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:wondering if you could talk a little bit
about your background at a high level,
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:and kind of what led you into living
in the United States for that matter.
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:Dr. Lulu: I think I was probably, I
don't know, born a rebel; the first
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:grandchildren of many, very, very many.
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:My grandfather had eight wives, and I
don't know how many children, because many
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:of them also passed away with childhood
illnesses and stuff, and I just happened
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:to be the first one, and I was raised by
my parents who are Catholic; traditional
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:Catholic, but my dad was also a little bit
more enlightened Catholic, even though he
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:was still a Catholic, but he kind of let
me push boundaries a little bit, so I grew
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:up not really having too many boundaries
when it comes to my imagination, or what
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:I want to do with myself or my time,
so with that as a backdrop, I wanted
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:to become an architect, and then my dad
was like, "Well, maybe you should do
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:something more feminine, like pharmacy."
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:I'm like, "Why?", and he said, "Because
your cousin is a pharmacist.", but
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:my cousin who is a pharmacist has
a big sister who is a physician.
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:Why would you pick the pharmacy?
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:I was like, "Well, if I'm
going to do anything medical, I
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:might as well become a doctor."
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:He was like, "What?"
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:I said, "Yes."
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:He's like, "Oh.
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:I'll double dare you."
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:I said, "Okay!"
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:You could triple dare me,
and something like that.
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:It was a conversation that was fun
and daring, and now it's like, "Wait.
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:If I'm not going to become an architect,
and I become a physician, I didn't
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:really want to become a physician.
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:I don't think I like blood or anything
like that.", and then I fell in love
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:with pediatrics and then I became a
pediatrician, so I think sometimes you
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:don't know who you're going to become,
or what's going to come out of something.
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:I just moved here.
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:I don't know, under a month ago, and
I was having a conversation with the
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:people at the front desk today, and
believe it or not, when I moved here,
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:I looked at this beautiful apartment,
and I said, "They have more than 500
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:employees here, and I'm a life coach.
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:It's a freaking buffet, but how
do I tackle it?", and so I told
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:her, I said, "I have an idea.
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:I'd like to offer life coaching
to the residents.", and she
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:was like, "Let's do it!",
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:Joshua: Wow.
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:Dr. Lulu: So the secret about it is, I
read somewhere on Instagram, they said,
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:'It's not so much in people believing what
you're saying, is people believing that
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:you believe what you're saying.", and so
I learned, I was like, my mind was blown.
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:I was like, "Wait.
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:What?", and so I told her, I said,
"I would like to teach you CPR
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:to the residents, those who have
children.", because a Nigerian
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:musician called Davido lost his child.
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:The child drowned in the pool, and nobody
could do CPR, but that was an idea, and
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:she was like, "Whatever you want to do.
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:No one's ever asked.", and one
of the things I learned as I
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:became an entrepreneur is to
just always ask for what I want.
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:The worst answer I'm going to
get is "no.", and no means next
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:opportunity, or next one, but
you know, the funny thing though.
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:Many people say yes.
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:Too many people say yes.
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:I have more people saying yes to me
asking, even though I read this book
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:called Go For No, and I'm usually
going for no, and so now when they
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:go for no, I'm just like, "Okay.
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:Let me just get the no out of the
way, because I know that there's a yes
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:waiting.", and so I've always been like
that, so growing up, I was kind of like
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:that; not as much as I am now, because
that there's something that comes with
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:getting older, and I said to you, when
I turned fifty 5 years ago, I ran out
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:of fucks to give, so when you get older.
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:You also become bolder.
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:There's this musician called
Sade Adu, who is half Nigerian.
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:When she turned 40, she was
interviewed, and they said,
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:"What do you think about life?"
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:I was, I don't know, maybe, I don't know
how old I was when I read that interview,
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:but Sade said, "I don't think life gets
better, but you get better at life."
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:I was like, "Wow!", so I know that as
I've gotten older, I've gotten better
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:at life, at my life at least, I have now
decided I'm going to live for me, and
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:I'm going to dance to the beat of my own
drums, and however they beat, if I make
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:a mistake, I'm going to live with it.
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:Do I want to make a mistake?
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:No, but if I make one, I just own it,
and move on, and so I think growing up
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:in Nigeria, in a country that was very,
very patriarchal, a lot of misogyny, a
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:lot of child marriage, religious, all the
things, homophobic to say the very least.
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:Someone like me who read a lot;
I just was a ravenous reader.
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:I was always teleported to a different
place, a different time, a different
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:imagination, and that is where I
found my future self as a traveler.
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:I knew then, when I was a little
girl in my father's house in
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:Nigeria, I knew that there was a
bigger world, because I read a lot.
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:I read comic books.
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:I read newspapers.
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:I read stories.
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:I read geography, whatever.
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:I just read, read, read, and I knew
that there's a bigger world out there,
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:and it's for me to go conquer, and so,
even though I didn't know how, it didn't
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:matter, and that's why I believe in the
laws of attraction, because I didn't
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:know how, but I didn't need to know how.
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:I just needed to know what.
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:What is it that I want, and I think
that's what I love about coaching.
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:What do you want?
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:How do you want to feel
about what you want?
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:Let's go get it.
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:Let's go get it.
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:Joshua: I want people to go get
it too, so I feel like we have
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:that commonality with that.
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:Yeah.
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:Dr. Lulu: No, no, that's fine, but
that's how I ended up coming to America.
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:I told my dad, I said,
"I want to go to America.
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:Did you know that in America,
you only have to do residency
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:for three years, as opposed to
Nigeria for seven to eight years?"
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:My dad was like, "Really?
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:But you don't know anybody in America."
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:I said, "I know, but residency is
three years in America.", and so
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:my dad and I went back and forth,
and then my dad said, "Okay."
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:I think he said, "If you raise half
of your ticket fare...", something
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:like that, "I'll let you go."
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:I raised three quarters.
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:Joshua: Wow.
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:Dr. Lulu: But that was after I had
taken the exams and passed and gotten
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:accepted to come and do residency at
Howard, and that's another day's story.
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:You don't have enough time on this show
for that, but I did mention it in one
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:of my books, the World Women Project.
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:I talked about that in that book,
but anyway, the point is I've
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:been dreaming big for a while.
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:I've just always just had a very ravenous
imagination and I'm grateful to my parents
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:for allowing me to imagine, to dare,
because I know that there are many girls
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:who were born in the same country as mine
who got married off at 13, and had babies,
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:and their life changed, but I went to high
school and I went to college and then I
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:wanted to come to America soon enough,
so I got here within the first three
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:years of graduation from high school.
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:I did my residency.
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:I got married.
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:I still had a wild imagination.
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:It was just bigger than my
ex-husband, bigger than my ex-wife.
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:It was just bigger.
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:I just knew there was a bigger world,
and so finally, I told the kids,
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:I said, " When the baby goes up
to college, I'm going to move from
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:Texas.", and they're like, "Mom!
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:Where are you going to go?"
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:I said, "I don't know.
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:San Diego."
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:That's what I said, and so everybody
knew San Diego, and then last
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:July, I came to Atlanta for a
mastermind and I discovered Atlanta.
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:I was like, "Wait.
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:What?"
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:I've been coming to Atlanta
my whole life, and I've never
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:been here as an entrepreneur.
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:I've been here as a wife, as a mother,
as a friend; all the things: for a
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:wedding, for a funeral, but I never
came as an entrepreneur, and I saw
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:the possibilities, and I said, "Guys.
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:Guess what?
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:I'm moving to Atlanta."
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:They're like, "Mom, wait!
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:What about San Diego?"
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:I said, "Fuck San Diego.
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:I'm moving to Atlanta.", because
I went to San Diego, I spent three
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:weeks, I saw two black people, and
I came to Atlanta and I spent three
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:weeks and I saw all their cousins.
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:Joshua: Yes.
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:Dr. Lulu: So I said, "Okay.
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:Atlanta is where I need to go,
because they're black people, but
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:also because of the work that I do."
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:Joshua: Mm-Hmm.
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:Dr. Lulu: I'm a life coach.
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:I'm a parent coach.
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:I work with parents of LGBT kids.
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:I am LGBT.
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:My kid is trans.
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:I was like, "I need to go to a place where
there are lots of black people, period.",
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:and then Atlanta has a lot of gay people,
but I really want to go for parents,
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:so I think it's a great combination
of humans, and so I'm in Atlanta, so I
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:moved here, and that's how I got into
this chair that I'm sitting right now.
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:That's a broad overview of the story.
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:Joshua: Well, I love that you took us on
that adventure, and I purposely did it
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:so that you had that time to expand it,
because I know that coming from another
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:country, first off, I don't have any
experience doing that, and I've told
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:you that too, like, Pennsylvania born
and raised, and many of my listeners
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:know that too, but being able to have
that different perspective, first off,
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:you bring in something that for many
people, it blows my mind sometimes,
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:because it's really cool to see, "Hey!
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:This is how I've been raised.
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:This is what I was taught.", but
other people don't get to see that,
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:or understand that for that matter,
and how that creates the opportunities
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:that we have, but then you say, "Oh,
well, I've been moving around, and
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:then I finally found where I need
to be.", and that's something in
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:itself that some people can't say.
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:We sometimes get stuck in where we are
at, and we don't want to do anything
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:about it, but with you saying that,
"I just create those opportunities."
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:I'll tell you.
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:There are people that don't want to
create those opportunities, because
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:they don't even know what the first
thing is to say, so I'm wondering-
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:Dr. Lulu: But the danger, the danger of
that is not listening to your inner child.
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:I really believe in my heart
that I gave myself permission
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:to retire from medicine at 52.
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:All my friends were like, "Wait.
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:What?"
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:I said, "Listen.
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:I said I was going to practice
medicine for 30 years.
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:It's 30 years.
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:That's it.
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:Any other job after 30 years, you've
done a good job, so why do I have to keep
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:practicing medicine?", and everyone's
like, "Wait, so what are you going to do?
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:So you're just going to throw
away medicine?", and I realized
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:that it's their own fears.
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:It's their own fears that they're holding
onto, because they cannot imagine a world
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:without being doctors, but that's on
them, and that's okay too, but I just know
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:that as I saw patients for 30 years, I
saw pediatric patients every single day.
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:I knew that I had a bigger world than the
little office that I was practicing in.
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:I just knew that there's a bigger world.
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:I just knew it.
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:It was just deep in my heart, and I
was reading this book recently by P.
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:J.
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:DiNuzo, who says, "If you want something,
you need to harness the feeling of a
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:small child on Christmas morning, every
day about that thing, and then the
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:universe will go crazy, trying to put
all the things in the right place to make
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:it happen for you.", and so, why not?
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:I told the kids, I said, "Listen.
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:I'm moving when the baby goes
off to college.", and the baby
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:went off to college, and I moved.
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:Now, I didn't move right away,
because their father passed away
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:the day after he graduated from high
school, so there was a little damper
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:in the plans, and I was like, "Okay.
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:I'm going to wait six months, and
then I'm still going to move."
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:At one point, I almost didn't want to move
again, and then my kids are like, "Mom!
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:Listen.
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:You've wanted to do this for so
long.", so that's also the power of
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:telling the right people your dreams.
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:It just so happens to be my own children
who are just as radical as I am.
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:I raised them to be radical thinkers.
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:Not necessarily extroverted like
I am, but they have me in them,
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:so I know they will take decisions
that people will be like, "Wait.
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:What?", but I give them permission
by giving myself permission, and
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:so my children were like, "Mom.
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:You've wanted to do this for so long.
289
:What do you mean you don't want to
move anymore?", and I was like, "Well.
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:Your dad died."
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:Our dad was going to die.
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:From all my limiting beliefs, they're
like, "Well, he was going to die anyway."
293
:He had cancer, and all those things,
but the point is that they did not
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:allow me to think myself out of it,
and that's what I want to talk about.
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:A lot of people think
themselves out of it.
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:Joshua: Yes.
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:Dr. Lulu: And so if you look around your
room right now, everything you see was
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:somebody's thoughts, somebody's idea,
that they did not think themselves
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:out of; whoever made this cup, whoever
made the size of this cup, whoever made
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:the cup with the shape, whoever made a
mouse, who made a mouse pad, they found
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:the solution to a problem, and they did
not think themselves out of it, so why
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:should I think myself out of my idea?
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:I see myself speaking in
front of 10,000 people.
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:I've seen that for a long time.
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:I'm wearing mustard colored pants.
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:I don't own mustard colored pants,
but I see clearly, so what I do
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:is keep on doing what I'm doing-
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:Joshua: Mm-hmm.
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:Dr. Lulu: Because the
universe will show up.
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:Joshua: It will.
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:Dr. Lulu: Show up.
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:Joshua: It will, but it's something
you said about radical thinking, so
313
:how do you become a radical thinker?
314
:I mean, you taught this with your
kids, so how do you do that yourself?
315
:Dr. Lulu: You truly just honestly
have to get out of your own way.
316
:If you get out of your own way, nine
times out of 10, that equals radical
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:thinking, because someone who is
called a genius today, yesterday was
318
:a crazy person, had a crazy idea.
319
:It was crazy when Galileo said, "The
earth was round.", and then suddenly,
320
:became a scientific genius, right?
321
:That's exactly what Beyonce's
husband said the other day.
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:They first call you crazy, crazy,
crazy, then they call you a genius.
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:Joshua: Yep.
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:Dr. Lulu: But do you call yourself a
genius, or do you stay thinking that
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:you're crazy, because I do know that
a lot of times the words are the words
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:we've been told when we're children;
the words we've been told as kids.
327
:I get that, but then do you
keep on believing it, and
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:then, you stunt your growth?
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:I think, honestly, since moving here,
I wish I had done it sooner, and we
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:almost always end up saying that, "Oh!
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:I wish I had done it sooner."
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:"I wish I had believed in myself sooner."
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:"I wish I had moved sooner."
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:"I wish I hadn't stayed in that
marriage a little bit longer,
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:because it wasn't working out."
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:Whatever the thing is, if you want it
with that want, that need of a small
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:child on Christmas Day, go for it.
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:Go for it now, because
you're not promised tomorrow.
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:You're not promised tomorrow.
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:Joshua: Well, and I even made
this remark, you being on TEDx,
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:I've had people on that stage.
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:I've had people that have done all
kinds of different types of interviews,
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:but you've been on CBS This Morning.
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:You've been on Oprah Daily, you've been
able to be in the Washington Post, NBC,
345
:all these different places, you've been
able to advocate exactly the radical
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:thinking that you're talking about here.
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:Do you think that there is a need in
today's world to have this sort of fire,
348
:because I don't know, for me, personally,
like I've worked with clients thus far.
349
:I told you like I'm just a budding
individual compared to what you have
350
:accomplished, but I have noticed, even
in some of my interactions, that some
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:people just don't know what that means
to be able to advocate, talk about
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:yourself, sell yourself, be willing to
get yeses instead of no's, and even if
353
:you got the no's to keep moving past that.
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:I mean, do you think that we
have a self confidence crisis, or
355
:what kind of crisis do we have?
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:I don't know.
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:I mean, maybe crisis is
too much of a strong word.
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:I'm throwing a lot at you there, doctor,
but I feel like there might be something
359
:here that you're saying that is so
important that people are not recognizing.
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:Dr. Lulu: I mean, that's a lot of
questions, a lot of words in succession,
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:but I think you will always get
100 percent "no" if you don't ask.
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:That's a sure no, and what you've
done by not asking is answering on
363
:behalf of the person, whether it's the
universe, or your father, or your child.
364
:If you don't ask for what you want,
you're 100 percent going to get a no.
365
:If you ask for what you want, you
might even get a yes; however,
366
:comma, sometimes the answer is no.
367
:Sometimes the answer is not yet, and I
say that, because, if I hadn't maybe done
368
:some things I've done in the past, I may
not be doing the things I'm doing now.
369
:Advocating for my child is a no brainer.
370
:My child is transgender,
for goodness sakes.
371
:I was at the Georgia Capitol
talking to the senator about it.
372
:I was at the same Georgia Capitol,
testifying in front of the House
373
:of Representatives, so not everyone
is going to be a radical thinker.
374
:Not everyone is going to be an activist,
because even the best activist needs
375
:what we call king makers, or the
wind beneath their wings, or the
376
:people who are fanning their flames.
377
:Everyone has their own role, and
so for me, it's not about everyone
378
:becoming a radical thinker.
379
:I just need you to believe your own
thoughts, and get out of your own way,
380
:and then you can call it what you like.
381
:You don't have to call it radical.
382
:That's a choice of word that I
used myself, but somebody else
383
:might not think it's radical.
384
:I just think it's radical,
because I think it is.
385
:I stand at the very weird
intersectionality of Nigerian born
386
:queer; that makes me obviously black,
physician, mother of a transgender
387
:young adult, who is also affirming.
388
:There are many, many Nigerian
physicians who are not queer.
389
:There are many, many Nigerian
physicians who are queer.
390
:There are many, many Nigerian physicians
who are not queer, but their parents
391
:are queer kids, and there are many
physicians who are not affirming.
392
:I just happen to be all of those things,
and I'm also affirming, but it helps
393
:that I happen to be a pediatrician,
so I know a thing or two about
394
:paternal or maternal acceptance and
support of any child, we're not even
395
:talking about LGBT, just any child.
396
:I know the power of an affirming
parent, because I'm a pediatrician,
397
:so maybe not everyone has to be
radical, but I just want everyone to
398
:remember what you wanted as a child.
399
:Go for it.
400
:When I was young, I used to use a pen
to be like a microphone, or hairbrush
401
:to them, so I've always wanted to speak,
and so maybe not necessarily sing, but
402
:I can sing a tune or two, so what is
it that you wanted to do as a child?
403
:What happened to that dream?
404
:Where is it?
405
:I loved writing, so it makes sense
that I've written seven books.
406
:I'm just saying.
407
:It's whatever you like to do, do it.
408
:I had a radio show when
I was in San Antonio.
409
:It was called The Parent Hour.
410
:In that radio show, the only qualification
was you have to be a parent, but the
411
:only condition to come on the show is
you cannot talk about your children,
412
:and it was so hard for these parents."
413
:"What am I going to talk about?"
414
:I said, "I don't know, but you're
not going to talk about your kids.",
415
:and then we start talking about,
"What did you want in high school?
416
:What were you like as a young adult?",
and then they're like, "Oh my God.
417
:I used to love knitting.",
or, "I used to love whatever."
418
:"So, what happened to that
when I had kids, and then, what
419
:are you telling your children?
420
:Who are you telling them to be If
you cannot be all of the things
421
:that you want it to be?", you know?
422
:Joshua: Mm.
423
:Dr. Lulu: So it's just a matter
of rethinking and un-learning,
424
:right, and then learning.
425
:A lot of people say unlearning,
and then relearning.
426
:That's actually incorrect English.
427
:If you unlearn something,
you should not relearn it.
428
:You unlearn something, and then you
learn, so it's a new information.
429
:"Re" means you are doing again.
430
:Joshua: Yes.
431
:Dr. Lulu: So it's not unlearning
and relearning; it's unlearning,
432
:and then learning the correct thing.
433
:If your child says they're transgender
and you don't know, you ask questions
434
:so you can unlearn what you thought
you knew, right, and then you can
435
:learn the correct information.
436
:You don't relearn what you thought you
knew, because you're basically back
437
:where you were, so it's just a matter
of giving yourself permission to be all
438
:that you can be, and that, in and of
itself, will give other people permission
439
:to be also all that they can be.
440
:Joshua: Dr.
441
:Lulu.
442
:How do you learn, or how do you get
parents or even others to learn, how
443
:to accept children, especially if they
feel that they're transgender, that
444
:they are going through, and they're
trying to learn what their identity is.
445
:I feel that there is so much hatred
as it comes to this that I hear
446
:all the time, and it's sad for
me, and I'm not even transgender.
447
:I'm not gay or anything like that, and I
affirm you being that you're an advocate
448
:for it, too, but how do we get over
this cycle of people not understanding,
449
:and being able to understand that
there are differences like that.
450
:Is there any advice you can give to
my listeners as it relates to that?
451
:Dr. Lulu: I mean, we just
talked about learning.
452
:You just learn.
453
:Now, that said, I'm not
here to save everyone.
454
:Even Jesus said that.
455
:Jesus said, I am a physician,
but I've not come to save those
456
:who do not want to be saved.
457
:I'm not going to incinerate
myself to become a martyr.
458
:No!
459
:I'm not going to do that.
460
:I'm here for those who actually want to
affirm their kids, and want to know how.
461
:I'm not here for those who do
not, if that makes any sense.
462
:8 billion people on Earth, which
is 800 million million, right?
463
:I'm not trying to save all of them.
464
:There's always been hatred on this Earth.
465
:There's going to continue
to be hatred on this Earth.
466
:Everyone gets to choose how
do they want to show up.
467
:Do you want to show up
with hatred, or do you not?
468
:Everybody has the wherewithal to
choose that, so if somebody chooses
469
:hatred, I'm not going to try to
teach them to not hate, because no!
470
:I get to choose who I want to
work with, and I think that's
471
:a beautiful thing about life.
472
:In today's world, I get to choose who
I want to work with, and it's okay if
473
:I don't want to work with someone, just
because I don't want to work with them.
474
:Now, if the parent wants to
affirm their child, great!
475
:This is a good thing, then let's
talk about that, and so my first
476
:question usually is, what are your
thoughts about the queer community?
477
:What are your thoughts about
being a parent of a queer child?
478
:Where did you get the information from?
479
:If you got information from your pastor,
who is a homophobe, that's incorrect
480
:information, because just like you said,
you're not trans, and I'm not trans.
481
:I am cisgender all day, so when I tell
someone that I'm cisgender and they
482
:don't accept it, that's not my problem.
483
:You see that?
484
:Joshua: Yeah.
485
:Dr. Lulu: That's their problem, and so
if I told you I'm transgender and you
486
:don't accept it, that's not my problem.
487
:That's your problem.
488
:Everybody's whoever they were born to be.
489
:I love the movie Rustin.
490
:In the movie Rustin, the gentleman
said, "The day I was born black was
491
:the same day I was born homosexual."
492
:The kids didn't become transgender.
493
:They've always been trans, and if you
ask a transgender person today, they
494
:will tell you, "I've always known.
495
:I knew when I was two.
496
:I knew when I was three.
497
:I knew when I was four, but I
didn't understand it.", and so in my
498
:second TEDx talk, I make a case for
rethinking the closet; inviting in,
499
:versus coming out, and I tell parents
it's not enough for you to say, "I
500
:want to understand what's happening.
501
:I need to understand.", because,
sometimes, your child doesn't
502
:understand what's happening, but
it's okay for you to be in the know.
503
:I want you to just be okay with knowing
that this is what your child is, and then
504
:educating yourself about it, as opposed
to, "You're not who you say you are."
505
:You can't tell me I'm not who I am.
506
:You just truly cannot, and that's all
about control, and patriarchy, and
507
:colonization and all that, you know.
508
:Just because people are doing
it doesn't make it right.
509
:Joshua: Yes.
510
:Dr. Lulu: Slavery was practiced
for so many years, and there are
511
:people who believe that slavery
was good, and they defended it with
512
:the Bible, so just because they're
doing it, doesn't make it right.
513
:Joshua: It doesn't.
514
:It doesn't.
515
:Dr. Lulu: So we all have the ability
to know what's right from what's not,
516
:and the ability to unlearn and learn.
517
:You get to choose, and
we've all made decisions.
518
:We know how to make decisions.
519
:You made a decision to
come on this podcast today.
520
:You decided to start a new podcast.
521
:You decided to buy headphones.
522
:We've been making decisions our
whole life, so when you say,
523
:"I don't know.", that's a lie.
524
:Joshua: And I don't regret it.
525
:Dr. Lulu: Yes.
526
:That's your brain offering you a way
out, and I don't know is never an answer.
527
:Joshua: It's always about having
that curiosity to be able to learn
528
:and unlearn whatever it is, because
you need to be able to just be
529
:able to have that growth mindset.
530
:I say that so many times, even my clients.
531
:It's about growth.
532
:It's about not accepting that
this is the answer today.
533
:It doesn't have to be
that answer for all time.
534
:Dr. Lulu: Yeah, and that's why I
said to you, I mean, as a coach, you
535
:know this, is all about our thoughts.
536
:Joshua: Yes!
537
:Dr. Lulu: Our thoughts create our results.
538
:Our thoughts create our feelings, they
create our actions, they create our
539
:results, so, my first question goes back
to, what are your thoughts about the queer
540
:community, and what are your thoughts
about being a parent of a queer child?
541
:The answer lies there.
542
:The answer lies there.
543
:If your thoughts about the queer
community is that they should burn
544
:in hell and die, well, there you go.
545
:That's why you have this situation.
546
:If your thought about being a parent of
a queer child is that, "All your friends
547
:are going to run away, and woe is me."
548
:You're making it about you.
549
:You should be making it about your child.
550
:If your child had autism, or epilepsy,
or retinoblastoma, you wouldn't
551
:be like, "Well, I don't know.
552
:My pastor said....", It wouldn't be that.
553
:You'll go and investigate and learn
everything you can about that.
554
:I'm asking you to do the same
thing for your child, and so my
555
:brand new practice is called Dr.
556
:Lulu's Pride Corner, so in that practice,
it's a family focused, gender and
557
:sexuality affirming, coaching practice
because I learned from my youngest child.
558
:One day, he said, "Mom.
559
:You do know I went from a big
brother to a big sister, right?"
560
:I said, "Yes."
561
:He said, "You never talk about that."
562
:I said, "What do you mean?"
563
:He said, "We never talk about my
journey.", and I forgot that when
564
:my eldest child is transitioning,
the whole family is transitioning.
565
:It's a family affair.
566
:We're all transitioning, and so my
youngest child also had to transition,
567
:and so now I decided I won't be
working with just parents anymore.
568
:I want to work with the whole family, and
if I can't work with the whole family, I
569
:can just educate people and still have a
lucrative business just as an educator,
570
:just like coming on podcasts and just
teaching people about the basics of LGBT.
571
:What do those terms mean?
572
:What does it mean to be two spirit?
573
:What is genderqueer?
574
:What is gender identity, versus
gender expression, versus
575
:sexuality, versus sexual expression?
576
:What do all those things mean, and
because, a lot of times, ignorance
577
:is the reason that we are afraid.
578
:We don't know what it means.
579
:You can look it up, of course.
580
:Joshua: Yep.
581
:Dr. Lulu: I can also teach you, and
they say, "Smart people learn from
582
:their mistakes, but smarter people
learn from other people's mistakes.", so
583
:you don't have to do what I did and be
unaffirming, because I already did that,
584
:and the truth is it's anybody's game.
585
:One of the things I say is every
black, transgender adult was a black
586
:transgender child hiding in plain sight.
587
:I'm obviously biased towards
black kids, because I'm black.
588
:My kid is black, and I'm a pediatrician,
so my focus is on kids, but also
589
:my hyper focus is on black kids.
590
:No one is talking about black kids, so
I'm going to talk about black kids, and
591
:so they used to hide in plain sight.
592
:We didn't know who they are,
because gender identity is
593
:a very personal journey.
594
:It's this deep, internal sense of self.
595
:You, alone, know your gender identity.
596
:No one else does, and so a lot of
people will remain transgender in
597
:silence, and never tell anybody,
because it's just not safe.
598
:Joshua: No.
599
:Dr. Lulu: You don't believe
me, look up Nex Benedict.
600
:If you don't believe me, look up
every single black trans woman
601
:who gets killed every single day.
602
:My daughter is a black trans woman,
so don't even ask me why am I a
603
:radical like this, because my child-
604
:Joshua: Yes.
605
:Dr. Lulu: Could be next.
606
:Joshua: Yes, and I appreciate you
not only creating that context, Dr.
607
:Lulu, for others to be able to
have that discussion with you, but
608
:to also educate just like you did
to me, along with our listeners.
609
:Dr.
610
:Lulu, we're out of time, but
before I wrap up- I know.
611
:I know it was such a good conversation,
and I really would have kept going
612
:with it for sure, but I want to
give you the last few moments.
613
:. People are interested, you
have a business called Dr.
614
:Lulu's Coaching and Consulting
Lounge, maybe you can share a little
615
:bit about where they could access
that, how they could get in contact
616
:with you if they're interested
in continuing this conversation.
617
:I'm going to give you the last
few minutes to do all of that.
618
:Dr. Lulu: Well, I appreciate that, so Dr.
619
:Lulu's Coaching and Consulting Lounge
is a big umbrella company, and one
620
:of the branches is the Allies In
White Coats where I help physicians
621
:become culturally compassionate
allies for their LGBTQ patients,
622
:especially the transgender patients.
623
:Another branch is my ABC Connection,
which is Ally Bridge Connection, where
624
:I help organizations support parents
of gender diverse kids, parents of
625
:LGBT kids, because they're coming for
us and calling us groomers, right?
626
:They're coming for us, and
then, of course, there's Dr.
627
:Lulu's Pride Corner, which is
the practice, which is a coaching
628
:practice, so all three of them
are in my website, dr-lulu.com.
629
:I'm also a speaker.
630
:I do media, and education, and all
that, so I would love for them to go
631
:there, check out the website, and fill
out the contact me form, and we'll
632
:contact you, and then we can start
the conversation, so dr-lulu.com will
633
:be one place, one stop shop, and of
course, there's also social media.
634
:There's my Facebook.
635
:I have a Facebook group, all kinds of
things going on, but all my websites
636
:you can pretty much get everything.
637
:Joshua: Awesome, and I'll put all
that in the episode notes in case
638
:my listeners do want to check
that out, but I have to tell you.
639
:I feel more informed tonight, and I
feel like I am empowered by a little
640
:bit more of understanding that I need
to unlearn, and then I can learn so
641
:many different things, and I think
that's so important, and you're
642
:sprinkling the pixie dust right now.
643
:I just see it because that's what I
feel like it is for me, so thanks.
644
:Dr. Lulu: Think about it though.
645
:You cannot build a house without
first excavating the dirt.
646
:That's the unlearning part, and then you
pour in the concrete as the foundation, so
647
:that's the learning part, so you have to
do the un-learning first, and what you're
648
:un-learning is what I call untruths;
untruths, and I came up with that acronym.
649
:My first name is Uchen, and my last
name is Ume, so it's U squared, so I
650
:use this U squared method is un-learning
of untruths so that you can learn,
651
:which is my middle initial is L, so I'm
going to put everything to that now.
652
:Joshua: Well, with all those
initials, thanks so much, Dr.
653
:Lulu, for being on
Speaking From The Heart.
654
:I really do appreciate
our conversation today.
655
:Thanks for sharing all that
insight to me and our listeners.
656
:I really appreciate it.
657
:Dr. Lulu: No problem.
658
:Joshua: Again, I want to thank Dr.
659
:Lulu for being part of the show,
and sharing her expertise, because
660
:there's so much that we can unpack
and if I had more time with Dr.
661
:Lulu, I would have certainly given it
to her, because there were so much that
662
:we had that really explains a lot of
different concepts, a lot of different
663
:opportunities to get your voice heard
out there, and even with some of the
664
:things that she did talk about, we
can easily dive into one of these
665
:subjects, especially being of cultural
significance, and digging into why it's
666
:so important to speak from the heart.
667
:I've always believed on this show
about the importance of being
668
:able to see multiple viewpoints.
669
:Many of my listeners, long
term, have understood this.
670
:They have really followed along, and
for those people, I want to thank you
671
:so much for being part of this, but for
many of you that are joining for this
672
:episode, I want you to know that for Dr.
673
:Lulu to express her background, to
understand why it's so important to
674
:be accommodating of other people, is
something that I really want to touch
675
:on with this wrap up of today's episode,
because how you're raised, how you grow
676
:up, those are all different types of
considerations that we need to have.
677
:It's allowing us to push forward,
when sometimes, it's not very
678
:easy for us to have that level of
engagement, to have that consideration
679
:of connecting with each other.
680
:Do you know what it means to
feel like we're connected?
681
:Do you understand what it means to
get involved with someone, especially
682
:if they do have different types
of things going on in their lives?
683
:Maybe it is having a
child that is transgender.
684
:Maybe they are confused about
what's going on in their life.
685
:Believing in what you're having to
say, though, in order to move forward,
686
:being asked what I want, is simply
what we really want to hear, and Dr.
687
:Lulu's story certainly exemplifies
the fact that sometimes
688
:we don't have that voice.
689
:We need to find that voice.
690
:We need to be able to speak up,
and many of my recent episodes in
691
:my monologues even talk about the
importance of being able to feel like
692
:we are connected with each other.
693
:Sometimes we do need to live by ourselves.
694
:We have to beat to our own drum.
695
:We have to also be teleported into
different types of planes of existence
696
:by being able to read, listen to other
podcasts, travel to new countries,
697
:new adventures that we can have.
698
:Many of my earlier guests, even some of my
international guests, quite squarely put
699
:it on our laps of why it's so important to
be able to have that different worldview.
700
:That's what creates the law of attraction,
and why we are so interconnected with
701
:each other, and I think that even
with what we had to talk about today,
702
:it allows us to see what the limited
potential we have if we just stick in
703
:our own mud, and only look at what we
have surrounding ourselves, instead of
704
:looking at the bigger, broader picture.
705
:Sometimes for people like that, it means
that we often have disgusting comments
706
:about what we might have towards each
other, and regardless of what you might
707
:say about that, it means that then,
you have to figure out what are some
708
:of the ways, especially with people
that have those differing views, that
709
:we can encourage them, we can engage
with them in a more polite manner.
710
:Who is helping you?
711
:Who is that circle of influence that is
allowing you to see your inner child?
712
:To see the ways in which you once
viewed the world, because if you
713
:were able to view the world with
curiosity, especially with what some
714
:of my recent guests, including Katie
Santoro, talked about, would allow us
715
:to keep pushing that needle forward?
716
:It will allow us to harness what we
can believe will make a difference
717
:in so many other people's lives, but
we have to challenge the status quo.
718
:For many, many hundreds of years,
thousands of years that humans have
719
:existed, you have to understand that many
different types of schools of thought have
720
:existed on how we can become a radical
thinker; how we can speak to ourselves
721
:through different types of conversations;
how we can get out of our own way; how
722
:we can make sure that we keep on growing
means that we have to radically shift what
723
:our thought pattern is today to change
and encourage what the future can hold.
724
:Now, it doesn't mean that you have to have
this extreme opinion, but it does mean
725
:that maybe you can start thinking about
ways in which you can tolerate others.
726
:It doesn't mean that you have to stoop
to a lower standard, nor am I encouraging
727
:you to take the beating that some
people like to give when it comes to not
728
:having that great thought, perspective,
or any other type of visionary
729
:activity that they think is visionary.
730
:No, no, no.
731
:Stop yourself right there.
732
:Sometimes they are not ready to have that
kind of radical thinking, and that's okay.
733
:It's okay to take a step back.
734
:Being able to understand what
we're actually looking at first.
735
:Asking those bold questions.
736
:Having that curiosity to challenge the
status quo, but also, learning how we
737
:can become the best versions of ourselves
by learning how to think differently,
738
:but it starts with being practical.
739
:It means that we have to practice.
740
:Maybe it means going back to our
childhood, finding the curiosity, being
741
:able to understand what we wanted to
be, and then getting back to square one,
742
:so we can build ourselves up to square
ten, one hundred, square one thousand,
743
:regardless of what that level is, we
can get there, but we get to choose,
744
:and I had to say that to a client a
number of months ago that I had that
745
:didn't quite understand that they did
have the choice to make a conscious
746
:decision on how they handled a situation
that was very personal in nature.
747
:We get to choose what we get to work with,
who we affirm our thoughts with, whether
748
:we have certain spheres of influence that
allow us to show up, every single day,
749
:and beat to our own drum, as even Dr.
750
:Lulu alluded to early on in our
interview, but we have to have the
751
:invitation to come in, and sometimes we
need to also have the invitation from
752
:others to come out, and I think that
even coming out, even with what Dr.
753
:Lulu had to experience for herself,
and even for others, means that we
754
:don't have to always feel criticized,
condemned, or complained, because we
755
:had something different on our mind.
756
:It doesn't mean that we have an excuse
to be cheated on, trashed on, shitted
757
:on, regardless of what you might feel
about somebody else, or what they might
758
:be thinking, it doesn't give you free
will to walk all over them, because they
759
:had a different thought than you and boy,
oh boy, in this ever contentious debate
760
:season that we're in, especially in the
United States, I can understand why some
761
:people just completely go silent, why they
don't want to participate, and why it's
762
:so important for them to just be excluded,
pretending that they're never there.
763
:Is that really helping the bigger
cause that we need to have as a
764
:society, as a culture as a whole?
765
:Sure.
766
:Many of you might be packing up your
bags, leaving for another country.
767
:Maybe you're going to go to a secluded
part of the United States that isn't
768
:settled yet, and trust me, there
are plenty of those types of places
769
:if you're willing to find them, but
your personal journey, and how you
770
:move forward, depends on whether you
want to run away, being scared of
771
:what change looks like, or you really
are curious, and want to investigate
772
:what truth really might look like.
773
:That's what I find so interesting
about our interview today is that
774
:truth is in the eye of the beholder.
775
:It doesn't mean that even
my truths align with Dr.
776
:Lulu's, and by all means, it
doesn't mean that I'm giving
777
:her any disrespect whatsoever.
778
:I really do trust that she believes what
she is preaching, and it doesn't mean that
779
:I always have to agree with what other
people, let alone my guests, have to say,
780
:but can we be a little bit more tolerable?
781
:Can we be a little bit more understanding
of why that is so important to them?
782
:Can't we just open the floodgates to the
types of conversations that we should be
783
:having, instead of nitpicking, condemning,
putting down, throwing away all the
784
:different types of progress that we have
made in this world, whether it's been
785
:something of cultural significance or not.
786
:Why can't we just learn from our past
mistakes, learn how we can be better
787
:people, political animals, as the
late Aristotle would put it, so that
788
:we can have a more thriving society
instead of condemning each other?
789
:Especially when it comes to the
transgender debate, I will never
790
:understand why we have to create that
hate in this ever changing world,
791
:because that is not making progress.
792
:That's not changing anything.
793
:It's making us revert back to our old
cavemen, cavewomen days of not even
794
:respecting each other in the first place.
795
:I think Dr.
796
:Lulu has a point.
797
:I believe that in order for us to
move forward, not only do we have to
798
:live for ourselves, but we also have
to also challenge the status quo.
799
:If we can challenge that status quo, if we
can be able to consider all the different
800
:things that we can learn and foster and
develop, and we can even challenge what
801
:has always been, quote unquote, the way
that we've always done these things,
802
:well then I think that we can create
the biggest difference in the world.
803
:We can be the radical thinkers.
804
:We can change what our society looks like.
805
:Sometimes, it's not ready for that kind
of change, but we can start to practice,
806
:just like a small child practices, when
they first learn that when they put
807
:their hand over fire, it burns them.
808
:Well, my friends.
809
:The fire is here, and you're letting
it burn you over and over again
810
:when you don't believe in the power
of thoughts, and for those that
811
:do believe in everything that I'm
trying to say, be the advocate.
812
:Be the leader that stands boldly outside
of your comfort zone, and is willing
813
:to say that it's okay to think this
way, but let's grab a cup of coffee.
814
:Let me understand why you think
that, and answer some questions
815
:for you that might be able to
help you move that needle forward.
816
:We have to be more curious, and I
think that by being more curious, we
817
:can choose who we want to work with.
818
:We can choose how we can move forward.
819
:We can choose who we invite in and
who comes out, and we can be the
820
:private investigators of our lives to
challenge what we have as the ultimate
821
:destiny, not only for our culture
and society, but for our future as
822
:well, so join me in that adventure.
823
:Let's grab that cup of coffee.
824
:If you don't believe in anything that Dr.
825
:Lulu said, or even some of my other
guests, let's have that conversation
826
:today, because trust me on this.
827
:I believe in you, and what you have to
say, but if you don't believe in what you
828
:can potentially hear from others, and get
them to help you become the best version
829
:of yourself, well, maybe you will be stuck
in where you are right now, but it doesn't
830
:mean that I don't disagree with you.
831
:It doesn't mean that I don't like you.
832
:It just means that maybe I'll
just be a little bit more
833
:patient until you're ready.
834
:That doesn't mean that there's
an invitation to hurt you,
835
:discriminate, or even put you down.
836
:My door is always open,
because just like in Mr.
837
:Rogers Neighborhood, I'm always
welcoming of all people, all backgrounds,
838
:regardless of where you're at.
839
:You're always welcome, even if
I have my red vest shirt on.
840
:I will always have some water, coffee or
tea, soda to help you, to even refresh
841
:you, and maybe a small little bedtime
snack, because this is a safe place,
842
:and this will always be a safe place
for everyone to help challenge and
843
:become the best version of yourself.
844
:Thanks for listening to episode
number 156 of Speaking From the
845
:Heart, and I look forward to
hearing from your heart, very soon.
846
:Outro: Thanks for listening.
847
:For more information about our podcast
and future shows, search for Speaking From
848
:The Heart to subscribe and be notified
wherever you listen to your podcasts.
849
:Visit us at www.yourspeakingvoice.biz
for more information about potential
850
:services that can help you create
the best version of yourself.
851
:See you next time.
