Episode #86 - The Truth Will Set You Free: An Interview With Katherine Spallino

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Welcome to the podcast where relationships, confidence, and

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determination all converge into

an amazing, heartfelt experience.

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This is Speaking From The Heart.

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Joshua: Welcome back to episode number 86

of Speaking from the Heart, and today's

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episode is something that I would have

never thought that I would have on the

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show, but after realizing the personal

and professional aspects of this story

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that we're about to hear from my guest,

I think that it makes perfect sense as to

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why we're sharing it today that nothing

is impossible to overcome, let alone

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your own dreams, your own aspirations,

even the things that might have been

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told to us at one point or another, but

then it's time to overcome and become

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something that we never thought possible.

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Today, we have Katherine Spallino

with us, and Katherine grew up on

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a secluded ranch within the cadet

organization, which is the Church of

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Scientology's Sea Org School for Children.

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At a young age, Katherine began to

journal about her day to day life,

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capturing the thoughts and experiences

of a child coming of age in a cult.

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Katherine's background offers the rare

opportunity to tell the story of the

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hundreds of children who rarely saw

their parents and were indoctrinated

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to become future Sea Org members.

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Katherine is no longer a Scientologist,

but lives in Minneapolis with her husband,

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happily raising three ranbuctious boys.

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I will tell you!

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This is not one of these episodes

that I'm going to stand and let it

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be told what you should be thinking.

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I'll let you make your own conclusions

about what you hear from today's story

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and about how Katherine has overcome,

really, not just the impossible, but

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also understanding that sometimes we

might be fed things that are not healthy

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whatsoever, and what you might think about

the Church of Scientology or not, is not

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what my goal is on this episode today.

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What I do say is that you have to make

your own understanding of what you

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have as your own opinions and your own

fascinations about this type of subject,

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but I will say, if the evidence doesn't

clearly say to you in this first person

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account today of what you should think

about the Church of Scientology, let

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alone other organizations that make

you feel a little cultish, I think

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it's time then to maybe re-examine

what your personal/professional

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opportunities are in your life.

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But with that, let's go to the episode

and let you make your own conclusion.

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All right we have

Katherine Spallino with us.

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Katherine, thanks for sharing

your heart with us today.

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Katherine: I'm glad to be here.

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Thanks for having me.

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Joshua: I appreciate you being

here, and I have to thank publicly

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the Need a Guest Facebook group.

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We connected through there

when I was advertising my show,

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looking for guests, and, wow!

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Your impact on me when I saw what

you've been through is something of

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quite significance, so, Katherine, I've

already let the audience know a little

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bit about your background, and I really

just want to start off with a level

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playing field for everybody and hearing

it from you, I think is really important.

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A lot of what we're going to talk

about today is really your experiences

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with the Church of Scientology.

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I was wondering if you could just

give us a level playing field so that

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we all understand, including myself,

of what the church of Scientology

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is, specifically what you were

involved with for a period of time.

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Katherine: Sure.

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I'm happy to dive in.

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It's a very big topic, but I

will just start from my point of

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view, which is I was born into

the Sea Org, quite literally.

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My mother gave birth to me, in a large

building in Hollywood at the stars

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were beneath me and I was born as

a baby; a sea org baby it's called,

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because in the Sea Org, you are

working for the church of Scientology.

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You don't go to church.

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It's like being a priest, but not

a priest, and it's a Sea Org member

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and they dedicate a billion years of

their lives, which is like, "what?",

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but that was normal to me growing up.

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I thought, "Okay, my

parents are in the Sea Org.

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I'm going to be in the Sea Org.

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This is what I was told was my

purpose.", and I think by like the

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time I was 10, I'd already signed the

billion year contract several times.

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It was like normal.

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I also did not live with my parents.

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I was in a dorm by the age of

six and that was in Los Angeles.

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My parents lived in the same building,

just not with me, and then by the

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age of eight, I was sent away to

a boarding school in the hills.

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It's like the mountains above Santa

Clarita called the Canyon Oaks Ranch,

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and it was called the Pack Ranch

Cadet Org, and its sole purpose was

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for these children to become future

Sea Org members in Scientology.

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All of our parents were in the Sea Org.

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We rarely saw them, and we all were

operating us like a miniature Sea Org,

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so we all had posts, which were jobs,

and we would work out in the hills and

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like de-weed or take care of the horses

and renovate the classrooms, and be doing

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jobs that adults would be doing, but we

were like eight, nine, 10, so I was there

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until I was about 14 years old, and then

I was told it's time to join the Sea Org.

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Joshua: Wow.

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Katherine: So the Sea Org-

yeah, it's kind of a lot.

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Joshua: Yeah.

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Katherine: Yes, and all this

time I believe in Scientology.

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Scientology, to me, L.

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Ron Hubbard, is the person

who invented it in the: 1950

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I've been going to his L.

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Ron Hubbard Life Exhibition that's

in Hollywood and seeing about

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all the amazing work he's done.

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He has all of these steps laid out.

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This is what Scientology is called the

bridge and if people do these steps they

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become enlightened and better people.

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They go "clear" it's called so when my

what to me my parents are saving the

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world, because they're helping people

go clear is what they would say, and I

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believed in that and if I joined the Sea

Org, I would also help people go clear and

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by doing whatever job I was assigned to.

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That was my growing up process, so not a

normal life to say the least, and it's not

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until later in my twenties when I began to

realize how much control Scientology had

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over me and my family, and not only that,

because they told my parents to no longer

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talk to me because they felt I was an

evil presence just to like really break it

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down really small that happened, and then

from there, I started to do some research

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and I realized how money hungry it is.

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You have to pay for all these

services, yet my parents are poor.

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I was poor in the Sea Org.

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All that money is just

going straight to the top.

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They're all treated inhumanely, and I

was lucky enough to leave when I was

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16 years old, so I wrote a book, The

Bad Cadet, capturing my life, what that

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life is like, because it's so hard for

me to just say that all in like a few

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paragraphs, so if anybody really wants

to get immersed in that world, I've

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written a book about that time of my

life called The Bad Cadet, because I did

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not do well as a cadet; the cadet work.

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Joshua: It almost sounds like to me you

were doing free work and being in a child

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slave trade sort of thing, because of

all the things that- normally as a kid,

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we're like playing out in the street, or

playing with her friends, or playing video

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games, or doing something that is what

we are learning to grow in instead of you

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building houses and mowing grass, and it

sounds like these are things that normally

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children should never be involved in,

at least until a certain age where they

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kind of understand what responsibility

is and starting to grow with that.

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Why were they doing that?

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Do you have any perception of that,

even to this day, as to why they

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put people through that process?

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Katherine: They considered us to be adults

in small bodies, so when you go, "Oh.

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They believe in reincarnation these

little people have lived many lives.

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They are more capable than society treats

them, so they can do these jobs.", so

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at eight years old, I'm cooking in the

galley for the ranch, and I am standing

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on a stool because obviously I'm too

short, and I'm leaning over, rolling

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the hot dogs, and I fall on the grill

because obviously I'm way too young to

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be manhandling this large equipment.

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It's different if you're at eight at

home with your parents standing next

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to you and you're cooking together.

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I do that with my own child, but

there was one adult and then there's

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like 20 kids all making the food.

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Of course, accidents are going

to happen, but it's because we're

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considered adults in small bodies

and we actually did get paid.

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We have like a stipend.

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It wasn't a stipend; we actually got a

paycheck, and it said our government, like

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our name and then like fICA would be taken

out and going to the government, and it

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was just $15 a week, and then ironically

though, after a few weeks of me getting

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paid, I actually stopped getting paid

and I find out it's because I don't have

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a social security number, because when

my mom gave birth with the midwife, she

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never filed the paperwork, so now I really

am working for no money at all, and if

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nothing is done, like my other friends

are all still getting paid; that's just

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a random side story that happened to me-

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Joshua: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

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I have to stop you here, so-

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Katherine: Mm-hmm.

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Joshua: When you were born, you weren't

given a social security number so

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that you would have something like

savings and a social safety net that

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we have cherished in the United States?

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That's that's just

really confounding to me.

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Katherine: Mm-hmm.

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It was just a low priority.

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They had to go back to work to save

the world and do Scientology stuff.

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I was number four; the fourth child,

so on one hand, you would think they

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would know this already; that you need

to file paperwork, but on the other

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hand, maybe I was just forgotten, but

I have other cadet friends, and all

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of us have very strange things, like,

my one friend, Felicia, her name.

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She always thought it was with a Z,

and then she saw her birth certificate

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for the first time and it's with a C.

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Her whole life she was writing

felicia with a Z, but because our

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parents aren't there, it's like we

had to fill in these holes, and I

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thought my birthday was one day.

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I thought it was August 5th and it

turned out to be August 4th, like

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I have so many friends like that.

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A lot of misspellings of names, wrong

birthdays, because our parents just

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kind of shunted us off, and they

thought they were doing the right thing.

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They're like, "Oh, there'll be

taken care of by the church.", but

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it was like, "Who's nurturing us?

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Nobody."

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Joshua: Have you ever been

able to meet your parents and

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ask them why they did that?

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Have you ever had that conversation?

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Katherine: Yeah, so my mom and

dad, I would see them periodically.

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When I was older from like eight to

13, 14, every few months, and that

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conversation didn't really come up.

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I would ask them like, "Why

don't you know my birthday?"

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I did ask my mom that she's like, "Sorry!

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I went in labor at night, and

then like goes early morning."

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It's like, "OK fine.

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I'll give you that."

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When I was in my 20s and no longer a

Scientologist, but I still maintain

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the relationship with my mother,

I was like, "I'm just curious.

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Why did you send me to this ranch?"

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It's not usual.

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Normally parents hold

their children close.

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You'll go to boarding school

if you're like a problem child.

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You don't go to boarding school from

the time you're a eight year old just

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because they are trying to raise you

to be indoctrinated in a church, right?

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But my question to my mom was, I asked

her in a way that wasn't going to offend

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her because she's still a Scientologist,

"Why did you send me there?", and she

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said, " I felt like it was a safe space",

because she was poor from New York.

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I had it beforehand.

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She's Puerto Rican and she

was born in Puerto Rico, but

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her dad came over to New York.

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She didn't have a lot of money.

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She grew up around crime,

so she was like, "Oh.

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My daughter will be safe and she's

going to be raised in a religion

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I believe in and taken care of.

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Why would I not?", so to her, she was

doing something good for me, and I think

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in her mind, she probably thought she'd be

more involved in my life, but she wasn't.

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Joshua: Wow.

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I mean, it sounds like to me, almost,

that it was the circumstances that

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your parents, even your mom were

going through, thinking that they

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were going to be taking care of, well,

at least the children at least, but

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it was a completely different story.

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When was the moment you realized

that this was sort of the wrong thing

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that should be happening to kids?

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Was there any sort of self actualization

or self realization, and can you describe

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a little bit of that moment for our

audience as to what you felt and how you

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reacted to it, because I can imagine...

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Katherine, like, going through these

sort of experiences being told, "Yes.

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This is the way we do things.

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This is a way that you will learn.",

and then all of a sudden you find out

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the truth and it just radically shakes

you to the core, so can you tell us

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a little bit about that moment and

you have that realization that maybe

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this isn't the way things should be?

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Katherine: Yeah, so there's these

moments of clarity and I start

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journaling about my life because

I'm like, this is a weird life.

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I kind of wonder if I'll write

a book about this one day.

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I did have this reality of knowing that

this wasn't usual, but I still believed

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in Scientology and I was like, "I can

write it in a way that was good though.

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All the good stuff.",

because I have good friends.

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There are good parts to my life.

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It wasn't all bad, and at the time

when I was thinking of writing it, it

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wasn't going to be like an expose, and

it's still not, to be honest, so when

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I became an adult, I had something

happen to me that was so hurtful.

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My brother was getting sick.

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I brushed on this

briefly, but he was dying.

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He had a plastic anemia and they

needed a bone marrow transplant, but

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before that had happened, there's this

method in Scientology where if you're

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getting sick, it's because somebody is

suppressing you, it's what it's called.

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You can picture bad voodoo or something;

like that person is doing things

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to make you get sick, so the church

pulled me in out of the blue, called

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me, told me to show up to the church.

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I come in, and this woman sits me down and

she says, " There's a report written on

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you that you're making your brother sick,

and you can't talk to your family anymore.

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On top of that, your dad is not

doing well on his post; on his job.

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He's a supervisor on what's called the

OT levels.", and I'm just like, "Whoa!

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Like, what do you mean?

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Are you calling me evil?

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Are you saying I'm making them sick?

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That's crazy."

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She was like, "Yeah.

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Don't talk to them anymore

until you do your condition."

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They have something where you make

amends to get back with the group

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and I had done nothing wrong,

and that was so hurtful to me.

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My parents stopped talking to me; my

sister, who worked in the Sea Org, so

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I was very alone, but luckily, I had

met somebody; my boyfriend at the time.

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He was not a Scientologist, and

in Scientology, one thing that

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makes a cult a cult is they really

close you out from outsiders.

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You can't talk to people, outside

of your group especially, and

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say anything negative, because

you want them to join the group.

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On top of that, inside your own inner

circle of Scientologists, if you

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say something bad about Scientology,

you will get written up; so I would

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get reported on if I said this is

so unfair that they did this to me.

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I would get in more trouble and probably

declared a suppressive person, which

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means I would lose my family forever.

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It's such wild stuff that I'm

saying, but this is how it is.

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Joshua: My mouth has dropped

open, as you can tell

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-

Katherine: I know.

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I can see.

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Joshua: Because I'm like, "Wow."

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This is definitely of a cult

esque way of handling things.

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Sorry, I interrupted you.

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Go ahead.

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Katherine: No, it's okay.

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It's very shocking, and I know I'm

spitting this all out, so for the

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audience, at the end of our interview,

I'll talk about resources of where

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they can get more information,

including my book or other ways,

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but yeah, so my boyfriend at the

time, he's like, "Hey, listen.

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I grew up Christian.

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I am not going to be a Scientologist.

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Don't worry.

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You can talk to me.", and it was such

a sense of relief, "Oh, I can finally

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talk about what's going on", and so like

telling him, and hearing it out loud,

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and he's not judging me and making me

put up a wall, was the beginning of

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deprogramming myself, because there's

this moment of me hearing myself

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say that these people are telling my

family to no longer talk to me because

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I'm somehow making my brother sick.

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It was so ridiculous, but I still

remained a Scientologist for another year.

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I took my boyfriend at the time, he's

now my husband, but to what's called a

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Scientology event, which would be like

if you're going to church, but it's

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like, oh my gosh, it's like going to like

those huge evangelical big stadiums, and

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then it's like a guy on the stadium, and

everybody's cheering manically, and it

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was just like, "Oh my", like watching it

through his eyes, and they were trying

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to sell a new product, and I'm like, "L.

290

: 00:15:38

Ron Hubbard has been dead for 30 years.

291

: 00:15:41

How are you still putting out

products on him?", you know, and that

292

: 00:15:44

everybody has to buy it, and as we're

walking out of this event, my friends

293

: 00:15:48

that I grew up with are jumping in

front of me, "Cash or credit card?

294

: 00:15:50

Cash or credit card?"

295

: 00:15:51

It was so insane, and I was

just like, like these moments of

296

: 00:15:56

clarity, and then I decided to go

on the Internet, and guess what?

297

: 00:16:00

You don't go on the Internet

if you're a Scientologist.

298

: 00:16:02

That's why they keep

Scientologists in there.

299

: 00:16:04

They tell them everything

that you hear is a lie.

300

: 00:16:07

We only know the truth, so for me to go

on the Internet was like a huge deal to

301

: 00:16:12

research and find out for myself, and

so by the time I was about 21, 22, I was

302

: 00:16:17

aware of exactly the harm that the church

does where I didn't know that they attack

303

: 00:16:22

people who talk badly about Scientology.

304

: 00:16:24

I didn't know all these things because you

don't go on the Internet, which is wild.

305

: 00:16:29

Joshua: First off, I want to tell you

how brave you are to be able to speak

306

: 00:16:34

the truth in this, and, you know, there

might be people that are listening to

307

: 00:16:38

this, like, "Katherine, you're telling

a bunch of lies and I don't believe what

308

: 00:16:42

you're saying, because I don't think

Scientology is that way.", and I have

309

: 00:16:45

always said on this show, and I'll say

it again, that I respect all viewpoints.

310

: 00:16:50

I respect what everybody

has to contribute to this.

311

: 00:16:53

Even if it's right, wrong, indifferent,

it opens the conversation about

312

: 00:16:57

things that we can do to be better.

313

: 00:17:00

That's what my business has been about.

314

: 00:17:02

That's what I've been working

with potential clients, and even

315

: 00:17:05

regular clients that I have, about.

316

: 00:17:07

I think it's all important so that we can

continue to make progress because this is

317

: 00:17:12

not progress from what you just told me.

318

: 00:17:14

It is indoctrination.

319

: 00:17:15

It is essentially brainwashing,

which I've even used that term

320

: 00:17:19

before we started this interview.

321

: 00:17:21

I feel that it is something that is

scary in itself because you don't

322

: 00:17:25

really get the opportunity to really

explore what's out there in the bigger

323

: 00:17:29

world, and there's something that

you said earlier that I really just

324

: 00:17:33

want to hone in on a little bit it.

325

: 00:17:35

You kind of touched upon the fact that

the group essentially disciplined you or

326

: 00:17:40

created some sort of issues as it related

to the situations that you went through

327

: 00:17:46

that might have been negative in nature.

328

: 00:17:48

Can you talk about that a little bit

as to what that is and what you've been

329

: 00:17:53

through, and why that was so important

for them to kind of create that negativity

330

: 00:17:58

in the first place, because I think

that it's really concerning to me that

331

: 00:18:02

they kind of put you through this.

332

: 00:18:04

Katherine: Mm-hmm.

333

: 00:18:05

Yeah, so I grew up- it's

wild to think about.

334

: 00:18:08

This is happening at a young age when

I am 11 years old- it'll be captured in

335

: 00:18:12

my book 12 years old, I read a note to

my boyfriend; I'm just going to give you

336

: 00:18:15

like a low level of where this begins.

337

: 00:18:18

I read a note to my boyfriend

saying, "Let's skip source."

338

: 00:18:20

Source would be a L.

339

: 00:18:21

Ron Hubbard lecture listening to it

like on a Audio and I was like, "Let's

340

: 00:18:25

go and hang out over by the horses."

341

: 00:18:27

He gets caught with the

note in the course room.

342

: 00:18:30

They call it a course room

instead of a classroom.

343

: 00:18:32

I get in trouble; not him, although I did

have the idea, but still, and then so they

344

: 00:18:38

isolate me and they put me on the ECG and

no one's allowed to talk to me, so I'm on

345

: 00:18:41

this group called the ethics correction

group that is meant to make me a better

346

: 00:18:45

person and to better myself, and I'm

miserable, and now I'm doing hard labor

347

: 00:18:49

all day and not going to school at all.

348

: 00:18:52

This is something that's already been

happening when I'm like 11 years old,

349

: 00:18:55

and what they're doing and what they

do with adults too is anytime you do

350

: 00:18:59

anything that's slightly bad or that

they consider bad, they will isolate you

351

: 00:19:03

from the group, and then have you read

a lot of Scientology stuff to better

352

: 00:19:07

yourself, so you blame it on yourself

and you think there's something wrong

353

: 00:19:10

with you instead of the people around

you, and then it's like a groupthink

354

: 00:19:14

here too, because they all look at you

like, "Oh, you're bad.", and then when it

355

: 00:19:18

happens to them, everybody does the same

thing to them, and now they're isolated,

356

: 00:19:22

and they're fearful of that happening

to them, so everybody's writing reports

357

: 00:19:26

on each other if they do something bad.

358

: 00:19:28

Spouses in the Sea Org will literally

write up their other spouse if they

359

: 00:19:32

feel like the spouse did something bad.

360

: 00:19:34

Yes, it's 1984 if you read that book.

361

: 00:19:36

Joshua: It sounds like

: 1984

362

: 00:19:39

Yes, absolutely.

363

: 00:19:41

Katherine: And on top of it, there's

this thought regulation, so they do sec

364

: 00:19:46

checks on Sea Org members when they're

like want to leave and go on vacation

365

: 00:19:49

to make sure they're going to come back.

366

: 00:19:50

They don't want to blow it's called and

they will have them confess everything

367

: 00:19:54

they've ever thought, and like people

will do like they don't- you're allowed

368

: 00:19:59

to have negative thoughts, but yet in the

Sea Org you can't, and if you say anything

369

: 00:20:04

negative, like, "Well, I thought about it

would be nice to be with my grandkids."

370

: 00:20:07

They're like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa.

371

: 00:20:08

That's way off purpose.

372

: 00:20:09

You can't go on this vacation.

373

: 00:20:11

We need to get you sorted out first."

374

: 00:20:13

That's the type of control

they have on these people,

375

: 00:20:17

and it's worse in the Sea Org.

376

: 00:20:18

If you're just a Scientologist,

it's also really bad, but if you're

377

: 00:20:21

in a Sea Org, you are captured.

378

: 00:20:22

You are insulated in that world, and my

parents have been in it for 40 years.

379

: 00:20:26

They have no money.

380

: 00:20:28

They are in their 70s now.

381

: 00:20:30

I'm now hearing online, there's

like reports coming out of elderly

382

: 00:20:33

abuse, so I'm trying to figure out.

383

: 00:20:35

They don't even talk to me anymore.

384

: 00:20:36

I have no way of reaching them.

385

: 00:20:37

They don't have a phone.

386

: 00:20:38

It's wild.

387

: 00:20:39

It's not even a church.

388

: 00:20:40

You can call it a cult of Scientology

is getting away with all of this.

389

: 00:20:45

Joshua: It's the year 2024, okay?

390

: 00:20:48

We're in the world now of technology

and having all these opportunities

391

: 00:20:54

to engage with other people

from halfway across the world.

392

: 00:20:58

We have these systems that built in

place, but it sounds like the church of

393

: 00:21:02

Scientology is living back in the 1800s.

394

: 00:21:05

Katherine: Yeah, and it's amazing that

the amount of control they have on

395

: 00:21:09

the Sea Org members and Scientologists

who are living in the regular world,

396

: 00:21:12

around with other people will not.

397

: 00:21:14

They will see a newspaper article that

says "Dan Matheson: convicted for rape.

398

: 00:21:19

Scientology has had a hand in covering up

the woman", or telling them not to report

399

: 00:21:23

the rape and they will be like, "Lies."

400

: 00:21:25

and not even look at it.

401

: 00:21:26

That's how well trained they are.

402

: 00:21:29

It takes a lot for somebody to wake up

from Scientology, or to come out of it.

403

: 00:21:35

Unfortunately, that's what cults do.

404

: 00:21:38

Joshua: Yeah, that is exactly what they

do, and even some of the cults that

405

: 00:21:43

we all have heard in the seventies and

eighties, some of them that are not

406

: 00:21:47

coming to mind right away, but there

were some that were even broken up by

407

: 00:21:50

the FBI and others that will bring-

408

: 00:21:53

Katherine: The Jonestown and stuff.

409

: 00:21:54

Joshua: Yes, that's exactly

what I was thinking of.

410

: 00:21:56

Thank you for putting that in.

411

: 00:21:57

Katherine: Oh I have been

doing lots of cult studying.

412

: 00:21:59

Joshua: Yeah.

413

: 00:22:00

It's so fascinating to me that even to

this day and age that there's still those

414

: 00:22:04

sort of techniques that are happening and

that creates some of these opportunities

415

: 00:22:08

that don't really happen, because

they don't really give the people that

416

: 00:22:12

should have every right and opportunity,

especially United States of America,

417

: 00:22:15

although I have a international audience

that listens to this, to be able to have

418

: 00:22:20

these opportunities that they can have.

419

: 00:22:22

It's just crazy to me to hear this.

420

: 00:22:24

You touched on something that

I really am curious about.

421

: 00:22:26

I know my audience will too.

422

: 00:22:28

How did you get to the other side?

423

: 00:22:29

I mean, you referenced your husband.

424

: 00:22:31

Thank God for your husband to

be like, "Whoa, Whoa, Whoa!

425

: 00:22:35

Let's hold the horses here for a second",

but there had to be some grieving and

426

: 00:22:40

some healing with that, so what have

you done to kind of get to that space to

427

: 00:22:45

especially articulate and talk about it?

428

: 00:22:47

I mean, I'm shocked just sitting

here listening to all of this

429

: 00:22:51

because I've mentioned this to

other guests I've had on the show.

430

: 00:22:54

Usually when we go through trauma

or things that are significant

431

: 00:22:57

in nature, especially at a young

age like you have been through,

432

: 00:22:59

we can't really process that.

433

: 00:23:01

It takes a while for us to get over

that, so can you walk us through what

434

: 00:23:05

you've done to get to that other side to

be able to eloquently talk about that?

435

: 00:23:09

I'm very impressed.

436

: 00:23:10

Katherine: Thank you.

437

: 00:23:11

I think what helped for me was that

there was a level of myself when

438

: 00:23:15

I was young going, "This is weird.

439

: 00:23:17

This is different.", so I don't

think I was ever fully bought in.

440

: 00:23:21

I was never a gung ho person who was

like, "Well I believe in Scientology

441

: 00:23:26

for sure", and I believed in L.

442

: 00:23:27

Ron Hubbard, but if you read my book,

you're going to catch me going through

443

: 00:23:31

these thoughts of like, "This isn't okay.

444

: 00:23:34

I don't like this.", where I

don't just accept everything,

445

: 00:23:37

this is all okay for me, you know.

446

: 00:23:38

To process the trauma of not being raised

by my parents, not being nurtured, being

447

: 00:23:43

screamed at a lot because it was very a

military like school, writing about it.

448

: 00:23:47

It helped a lot.

449

: 00:23:48

In my twenties is when I put

down all my journal thoughts.

450

: 00:23:52

It was just a mess of thoughts and

emotions, and then I got nightmares.

451

: 00:23:55

I processed it in my dreams a lot, and

that was a for a few years, but that

452

: 00:24:00

helped, I think, to get it all out there,

and then once I decided to actually turn

453

: 00:24:04

it into a book, going through it again and

again and again, I wrote so many drafts

454

: 00:24:09

and editing, and then talking about it

with my husband, talking about it with my

455

: 00:24:12

best friend who helped me edit it as well.

456

: 00:24:15

That really, I think, was almost

a form of processing and having

457

: 00:24:19

almost like a therapist, but to

myself, but when I had children,

458

: 00:24:22

I had to do something else because

it's different when I had children.

459

: 00:24:26

Then I really became aware of what my

parents gave up, and I have three kids and

460

: 00:24:31

when my parents, again, they did it two

times, they decided to stop talking to me.

461

: 00:24:35

This is before my book came out, because

my best friend was on Leah Remini's

462

: 00:24:39

Aftermath show, they felt because I knew

that they can no longer be connected

463

: 00:24:44

to me, and it was very sad, and I had

twin babies and a three year old, and

464

: 00:24:48

it was Minneapolis and it was winter.

465

: 00:24:50

It was all these things; double whammy.

466

: 00:24:52

Joshua: Yeah.

467

: 00:24:52

Katherine: So I think I had

like low level depression.

468

: 00:24:55

I was definitely not myself.

469

: 00:24:56

I was irritable, not feeling my best,

and I'm an upbeat person, and I wasn't

470

: 00:25:00

upbeat, so I got a therapist, and she

was somebody I could just talk to about

471

: 00:25:06

everything and process it, and now I just

check in with her every six months or

472

: 00:25:10

so, especially with raising my children

when they hit these developmental stages,

473

: 00:25:14

especially when they're being very hard

to work with, like if they're dealing

474

: 00:25:19

with a lot of emotions, I'm like, "Okay.

475

: 00:25:20

What's the best way to help a child who's

going through this?", so I get help in

476

: 00:25:24

that regard because I didn't have any

modeling family of how to raise children,

477

: 00:25:30

and overall, I think I do a great job

with my children, but it's nice to have

478

: 00:25:33

somebody who's a professional, just

give advice and tell me this is normal.

479

: 00:25:38

This is how they react like

this because of this, and here's

480

: 00:25:41

some tips and tricks and so on.

481

: 00:25:44

Joshua: I've had guests on the show

that we've talked about fatherlessness

482

: 00:25:47

and really the importance of having a

role model, like a father figure, even

483

: 00:25:52

mothers for that matter, so I completely

understand where you're coming from,

484

: 00:25:56

because for you, you don't really have

that basis, so having that ability

485

: 00:26:01

to bounce it off of somebody that's

qualified, especially a therapist,

486

: 00:26:05

which claimed the fame for myself, I'm

approaching my fourth year anniversary

487

: 00:26:08

of seeing a therapist and still working

through many of the things that I've been

488

: 00:26:12

through in my life, Katherine, and I can

always say that it's always good to have

489

: 00:26:17

that ability to talk about it, speak

about it, have that connection so that you

490

: 00:26:22

feel like you're doing the right thing.

491

: 00:26:24

You feel like you're making that progress.

492

: 00:26:26

In the last few minutes, I want to talk

about your book, which we've already

493

: 00:26:30

alluded to a few times, but just to

put it out there for the listeners,

494

: 00:26:33

I'll have it in the episode notes

in case you want to check it out.

495

: 00:26:36

It's called The Bad Cadet:

Growing Up In The Church of

496

: 00:26:39

Scientology Sea Organization.

497

: 00:26:41

I'm imagining, Katherine, that not only

do you talk about your experiences going

498

: 00:26:46

through this process, which you've already

shared, but, when you were writing the

499

: 00:26:50

book, did it trigger you a little bit,

because you were even just talking about

500

: 00:26:54

in the last part here about just feeling

a little bit of depression, anxiety, kind

501

: 00:26:58

of having flashbacks of those things.

502

: 00:27:01

Does it still impact you to this day,

even as you talk about the book, and

503

: 00:27:05

if so, what's your go to to alleviate

that, because I can imagine that

504

: 00:27:09

you're still processing some of those

things, but I mean, like I said, you're

505

: 00:27:13

handling it so well, but yet the book

is really a view for everybody else to

506

: 00:27:19

see what you've been through so that

nobody has to go through something like

507

: 00:27:23

that, although it still exists, the

church of Scientology for that matter.

508

: 00:27:27

Katherine: Mm-hmm.

509

: 00:27:28

I feel that because of all that writing

I did, I overall am doing so well.

510

: 00:27:33

The interesting part was, I was going

to have my book come out anonymously

511

: 00:27:38

and not have my name on it at all out

of fear, and there is something that

512

: 00:27:43

people probably know about at this

point is that Scientology is very

513

: 00:27:46

aggressive if you speak out on them.

514

: 00:27:49

Online, they will flood you with trolls.

515

: 00:27:51

They will even paper your neighborhood.

516

: 00:27:54

They will send P.

517

: 00:27:54

I.'s after you.

518

: 00:27:56

I was also worried about losing my

parents, but then they took my parents

519

: 00:27:59

anyways, but then I was like, "Okay.

520

: 00:28:01

I'm going to do this."

521

: 00:28:03

I decided to write the book.

522

: 00:28:04

What I'm dealing with now, anxiety

wise, it was very scary, but actually,

523

: 00:28:08

it was very freeing to just put my

name out there, because now I'm not

524

: 00:28:12

living a lie, because I had friends

who are still in Scientology, who

525

: 00:28:16

are, like, talking about their wins

in Scientology, and I'm like, "Oh.

526

: 00:28:18

I have to act like I agree with what

they're going through", and so just to be

527

: 00:28:22

truthful and be like this is my story, and

the funniest part too, it's not funny, but

528

: 00:28:27

my book is not an attack on Scientology.

529

: 00:28:29

You would think it is with everything

I'm saying, but it's literally

530

: 00:28:32

just me growing up in the church of

Scientology, and I have funny moments.

531

: 00:28:36

I have like, "Oh.

532

: 00:28:37

That guy's cute.", total teenage

coming of age, but it's just in the

533

: 00:28:43

church of Scientology, and you really

get a picture, the full picture.

534

: 00:28:45

It's not just going to be all

these bad things happen to me.

535

: 00:28:48

There's going to be joyful moments

too, and I felt like it was important

536

: 00:28:52

to capture the world of that time,

so circling back, how I feel.

537

: 00:28:57

I feel proud and great.

538

: 00:28:58

I don't have anxiety.

539

: 00:29:00

Luckily, I was not attacked

by the Church of Scientology.

540

: 00:29:02

I might be too small and in the pond.

541

: 00:29:05

They have a lot of people attacking

them right now; speaking out, I

542

: 00:29:07

wouldn't even call it attacking like

Leah Remini's show, Mike Rinder.

543

: 00:29:11

There's a whole thing.

544

: 00:29:12

This is what I was talking about;

any audience members are interested.

545

: 00:29:15

SPTV on YouTube is huge right now,

and it's all these different people

546

: 00:29:19

who are in the Sea Org, or just second

generation Scientologists, born into

547

: 00:29:23

Scientology, talking about their

experiences, so there's all these

548

: 00:29:27

mediums now to learn about Scientology,

and I think there's so many of us.

549

: 00:29:31

There's comfort in numbers, so that

it was so coincidental that right

550

: 00:29:35

when my book came out SPTV was

starting, so I have a security blanket.

551

: 00:29:39

It's very nice, so, I don't know

if that helps answer any questions.

552

: 00:29:43

Joshua: It does, and it actually creates a

support mechanism that I feel that there's

553

: 00:29:49

these individuals that have gone through,

or still going through, what you have been

554

: 00:29:54

through, and it's really fascinating to

me that this is the first time I've been

555

: 00:29:59

exposed to this sort of conversation.

556

: 00:30:01

I've heard of many different types of

churches, kind of indoctrinating people,

557

: 00:30:06

but it's more of an individual basis and

not really a streamline because you hear

558

: 00:30:10

about the Catholic Church and the abuse

scandals with that, but nothing to the

559

: 00:30:16

degree of what you've shared, and even

if it isn't an attack, I will say this.

560

: 00:30:21

It's brave enough to just be able to

talk about it, like I mentioned earlier,

561

: 00:30:24

because for some people, honesty and truth

sometimes is a really scary thing, and I

562

: 00:30:30

know that from personal experience, and

I think I have some haters of this show

563

: 00:30:33

that will listen to this and be like,

"Yeah, I hate you, Josh, and Speaking From

564

: 00:30:37

The Heart because of who you represent",

and you can't people please everybody,

565

: 00:30:41

but the thing is, is that you're living

that authentic life, and I love that so

566

: 00:30:45

much, and that's what radiates from you.

567

: 00:30:47

Katherine, before we close, I just

have this one quick question for you,

568

: 00:30:51

and maybe you want to try to just

take it in a minute to answer this.

569

: 00:30:55

What would you say to somebody that is

listening to this, they happen to fall

570

: 00:30:59

across it, and they are going through some

of these experiences that you have lived.

571

: 00:31:04

What would you say is one of

the things that they can do to

572

: 00:31:08

help them get to the other side?

573

: 00:31:10

In other words, how can they escape from

that sort of cultism, or that sort of

574

: 00:31:16

abuse, that maybe they're going through

from such an organization like that?

575

: 00:31:20

Is there any advice you would give them?

576

: 00:31:22

Katherine: Yeah, I would say,

if you're already listening to

577

: 00:31:25

things that are outside your norm,

you're already on the right track.

578

: 00:31:28

If you're listening to things

that people have told you not to

579

: 00:31:30

listen to, never let anyone monitor

where you get information from.

580

: 00:31:35

That's what got me out was I finally

went and looked for myself to find

581

: 00:31:39

the truth for myself, so, go listen

to whatever you want to, or go read

582

: 00:31:43

or watch, and learn and educate

and find out what's true, what's

583

: 00:31:47

actually true, and not what somebody

tells you to believe, or some group.

584

: 00:31:52

Joshua: I love that because

the truth will set you free.

585

: 00:31:55

That's literally what I was just

thinking about when you said that,

586

: 00:31:58

and being able to surround yourself

with those positive thoughts and

587

: 00:32:02

encouragements are definitely necessary.

588

: 00:32:04

Katherine, you are an author.

589

: 00:32:06

I would love to give you

the last few moments.

590

: 00:32:07

How can people get your book?

591

: 00:32:09

How can people access you if

they want to reach out to you,

592

: 00:32:12

?Maybe have a conversation.

593

: 00:32:13

Maybe they're going through

something quite similar to this?

594

: 00:32:16

Maybe they want to have a one on one with

you to kind of give you their perspective

595

: 00:32:20

and maybe you can give them some advice.

596

: 00:32:22

I'm going to give you these

last few minutes to do that.

597

: 00:32:25

Katherine: Thanks.

598

: 00:32:26

Yeah, you could get my book on

Amazon for print and then ebook is

599

: 00:32:30

everywhere, and then I'll have an

audible out in the next month or so.

600

: 00:32:34

You can follow me @thebadcadet on

Twitter, Instagram, and I just started

601

: 00:32:39

a Facebook page as well, and I do answer

to DMs, and I actually have pictures

602

: 00:32:45

from my childhood on my bad cadet

page for Instagram, so if you're just

603

: 00:32:49

curious and want to see some of the

visuals, that's there as well, and yeah,

604

: 00:32:53

definitely reach out if anybody wants to.

605

: 00:32:55

I'm open.

606

: 00:32:57

Joshua: Not only have you been very open

with me and our audience about this- I

607

: 00:33:01

mean, first off, I'm going to put all this

stuff in the episode notes so that they

608

: 00:33:05

can access that, including your Instagram

and even the book too, if they want to buy

609

: 00:33:09

it off at Amazon, but I have to tell you,

you're a very brave lady for doing this.

610

: 00:33:13

I think that many people are afraid to be

able to open and express what they've been

611

: 00:33:17

through because we live in this culture

where we shun other people speaking out,

612

: 00:33:22

even if it is from a unique perspective.

613

: 00:33:25

Like I said earlier, I appreciate all

the differences that come through on this

614

: 00:33:29

show, and even on all the things that

I talk about, even myself, but I think

615

: 00:33:34

he represents something that is truly

important, which is no matter what is

616

: 00:33:38

going on, if you feel that something is

wrong, if it smells like something is

617

: 00:33:42

wrong, there might be something wrong and

you should get an outside counsel and I

618

: 00:33:48

really appreciate your husband kind of

pulled you out of that made you see the

619

: 00:33:52

true opportunity that there is in life,

and I'm glad you've written about it and

620

: 00:33:56

for all those reasons, Katherine, thanks

for sharing your heart with us today.

621

: 00:34:00

Thank you for being on

Speaking From the Heart.

622

: 00:34:02

It was really fascinating and

definitely a unique perspective story

623

: 00:34:07

that I have loved to feature and I

appreciate you sharing it with us today.

624

: 00:34:12

Katherine: Thank you

so much for having me.

625

: 00:34:13

It was a pleasure.

626

: 00:34:15

Joshua: I really want to thank Katherine

for sharing and being vulnerable on

627

: 00:34:19

this show about not only her experiences

being part of the Church of Scientology's

628

: 00:34:24

Sea Org School for Children, but also

understanding that our viewpoints about

629

: 00:34:29

what we might believe in an organization

and what their effectiveness is, doesn't

630

: 00:34:34

necessarily meet the qualifications

from time to time of being a very well

631

: 00:34:40

known or very thought out process for

even organizations such as theirs to

632

: 00:34:45

really do good work, because we might

lose our identity from time to time,

633

: 00:34:49

especially when it comes to understanding

what we can create as not only those

634

: 00:34:54

best versions of herself, which we have

continuously preached on this show,

635

: 00:34:59

but I think it's really understanding

what our identity is in the long run.

636

: 00:35:05

I don't know what to say.

637

: 00:35:07

I really don't know, and I think that

even to this day I still think about

638

: 00:35:11

the episode and even as I record this

which has been months later reflecting

639

: 00:35:16

on the interview that we had, is

really a fascinating topic in itself,

640

: 00:35:21

because I think there's a lot of

different angles we can go with this.

641

: 00:35:26

We could talk about working as a kid.

642

: 00:35:28

Does it really help you to create

that opportunity if you work really

643

: 00:35:32

hard to get the credentials, the

scholarships, the opportunities that

644

: 00:35:36

are bestowed upon you, if you don't

really feel like living in those

645

: 00:35:40

circumstances, let alone those conditions,

become what you really want to be?

646

: 00:35:45

Then there's the whole

other incorrect identity.

647

: 00:35:48

Do you really feel that you should

identify with not only the parents

648

: 00:35:52

that you have growing up, but then to

take orders from somebody else, not

649

: 00:35:57

knowing what you're really supposed

to be thinking in the long run?

650

: 00:36:00

Then there's the whole observation

about the Church of Scientology.

651

: 00:36:04

Don't even get me started about discussing

maybe some of those things that normally

652

: 00:36:09

I don't normally discuss, but I'm going to

let you make your own decisions about what

653

: 00:36:13

Katherine had shared with us today about

whether you think that this is really a

654

: 00:36:18

scary organization or not, but I think

there's one thing that universally comes

655

: 00:36:23

true when you listen to this story, and

it's that truth will always set us free.

656

: 00:36:31

No matter what kind of truth it is,

no matter what kind of things that

657

: 00:36:35

you might think are true, truth in

itself can always be very scary if

658

: 00:36:40

we're very skeptical of what that truth

can actually create in our own lives.

659

: 00:36:45

I think that we have to really think

about the fact that truth, sometimes

660

: 00:36:48

when it's really hard to face, It's

usually when we have to listen to it

661

: 00:36:52

the most, because we know that we don't

want to hear the bad news that's ahead.

662

: 00:36:57

Now, as a coach, and taking it from this

perspective as a coach, listening to this

663

: 00:37:01

story today, there are a lot of different

things that I really have to say.

664

: 00:37:06

First off, if you're seeking somebody

to really tell you what the truth

665

: 00:37:09

is, don't let them lead you astray.

666

: 00:37:12

Don't let them feed you negative

bullshit in order for you to feel

667

: 00:37:17

like you are actually listening to

them, and I literally say negative

668

: 00:37:20

bullshit because there are a lot of

people out there that will feed you

669

: 00:37:25

a good mouthful of crap, and I know.

670

: 00:37:29

There might be a lot of people

out there that might be saying,

671

: 00:37:31

"Josh, you're full of crap.

672

: 00:37:33

I don't know why I even listen to you.",

and that's a point well taken and I

673

: 00:37:37

understand, but we can argue back and

forth, whether we want to be on social

674

: 00:37:42

media or not, trying to figure out what

that best intention is that we're really

675

: 00:37:46

trying to set, but I don't think that

we necessarily want to hear that B.

676

: 00:37:52

S.

677

: 00:37:52

from somebody else, if we

know that that truth is really

678

: 00:37:56

what's going to set us free.

679

: 00:37:58

What if that's really what we're trying

to say and we're coming from a good place?

680

: 00:38:02

That's when you have to do your homework

and I've been a continuous advocate for

681

: 00:38:06

always saying that if you want to have

the best coach, if you really want to

682

: 00:38:10

have somebody that really works with

you, and really wants to see your best

683

: 00:38:14

interests in line with what you want

to achieve, they will take the time

684

: 00:38:18

to listen to what you have to say.

685

: 00:38:20

They will help you set the goals in which

you are going to set to move forward.

686

: 00:38:24

They are going to help you become what

you want to become, but it doesn't

687

: 00:38:29

happen with a snap of the fingers.

688

: 00:38:31

It doesn't happen from someone else

barking orders at you, thinking that

689

: 00:38:35

you're going to become something

that you never thought possible.

690

: 00:38:38

It doesn't mean that you have to always

listen to those different opinions, even

691

: 00:38:43

if they're coming from your own parents.

692

: 00:38:46

Radical, right?

693

: 00:38:48

I know that many of us can listen to our

own parents, and maybe we have a lot of

694

: 00:38:52

great experiences with them being able

to share some of those best interests,

695

: 00:38:57

some of those best hobbies, maybe some

of those best jobs that we've ever had,

696

: 00:39:02

but not everybody gets that opportunity,

and I think that we have to live in a

697

: 00:39:07

human body that has to experience some

of these disgusting things in our lives

698

: 00:39:13

in order to understand what happens when

we go down the wrong path, but Katherine

699

: 00:39:20

had a different story that she shared

today in which not only was her husband

700

: 00:39:25

willing to take her into this life that

is not something that she needed to

701

: 00:39:30

spend all her life in to make sure that

she realized that she doesn't have to

702

: 00:39:35

always have those opportunities that the

Church of Scientology was giving her.

703

: 00:39:40

She was able to make her own observations.

704

: 00:39:43

She was able to make her own

conclusions based on all the things

705

: 00:39:46

that were being told about her.

706

: 00:39:48

She was able to do her own research and be

able to make her own conclusions and that

707

: 00:39:53

today, ladies and gentlemen, if there's

anything that you need to take away from

708

: 00:39:57

this is that we have to make our own

conclusions about what's ahead for us.

709

: 00:40:03

Now, as a coach, I can give you

unlimited amount of tools, guidance,

710

: 00:40:08

opinions, all kinds of things based

on my own earned life experiences,

711

: 00:40:13

but I'm not the Church of Scientology.

712

: 00:40:16

I am not one of these cults that keep

on saying that you need to do X, Y, and

713

: 00:40:20

Z in order to attain life achievement.

714

: 00:40:23

You don't need to always be skeptical of

everything that I have to say, because

715

: 00:40:27

it comes from a place that you all know

is not only hardworking, but earnest in

716

: 00:40:33

its own nature, and from all the things

that I have ever exposed myself to, not

717

: 00:40:39

only outside of the business, let alone

what I will encounter in the future, even

718

: 00:40:43

part of my business, I know that sometimes

understanding and learning from others

719

: 00:40:49

can be the scariest thing that we will

ever do, which is why I want to spend a

720

: 00:40:56

few moments telling you about why it's so

important to re-listen to this episode if

721

: 00:41:01

there is something that you have missed.

722

: 00:41:05

How much more abuse will you take

from something, that is so incredibly

723

: 00:41:10

disgusting in nature, in your own life,

that you're going to continuously keep

724

: 00:41:15

living in it, day after day after day?

725

: 00:41:20

How many more times does it take

to go into that job and keep on

726

: 00:41:23

listening to bullshit, if you're

not willing to change anything

727

: 00:41:28

about what your life is all about?

728

: 00:41:31

How many more times will it take for you

to sink into your subconscious that every

729

: 00:41:36

time that you listen to any of those

people that tell you that you're not good

730

: 00:41:40

enough, not strong enough, not forthright

enough, to understand or even retain the

731

: 00:41:45

knowledge that you have or the ability to

create that best version of who you are.

732

: 00:41:51

How many more times will it take

for you for that to sink in?

733

: 00:41:56

If there's more than one person

in your life that's telling

734

: 00:41:58

you that you are worth more.

735

: 00:42:01

It's that you might be listening to all

those cues, all those opportunities, all

736

: 00:42:06

those segments, but you're not listening

to what they're really trying to share.

737

: 00:42:13

Freedom is the ultimate gift when

you're listening to that truth

738

: 00:42:18

that will help you to set you free.

739

: 00:42:20

Let me say that again.

740

: 00:42:22

Freedom can be that ultimate gift that you

give to yourself after you listen to the

741

: 00:42:28

truth that will set you free, and I think

all of us deserve to have that freedom in

742

: 00:42:35

our lives, to be able to pursue whatever

opportunities for development there are,

743

: 00:42:40

whether they're personal or professional.

744

: 00:42:44

I have had numerous people come

through my business and have seen that

745

: 00:42:48

work, by doing it for themselves, be

able to set them free for the vast

746

: 00:42:54

opportunities that lie ahead for

them, but the work is not easy to do.

747

: 00:43:00

The truth that we often have to listen

to in order to create that opportunity

748

: 00:43:05

for ourselves is not easy to do.

749

: 00:43:09

The things that we might be skeptical

about and what we need to work on is

750

: 00:43:14

not easy to listen to, but if there's

anything that you have ever learned

751

: 00:43:21

in this episode today, it's this: it

doesn't matter what you do as a kid.

752

: 00:43:27

It doesn't matter what

you do as a teenager.

753

: 00:43:30

It doesn't matter what

you do as a young adult.

754

: 00:43:32

It doesn't matter what

you do as an adult now.

755

: 00:43:34

It doesn't matter what it means

if you're older and you're still

756

: 00:43:37

struggling with that identity.

757

: 00:43:41

You do matter.

758

: 00:43:43

Everything that you do matters.

759

: 00:43:45

Everything that you'll create matters.

760

: 00:43:48

Everything that you are involved with

as a human being matters, and it doesn't

761

: 00:43:54

matter what anybody has ever said to you,

whether it's past, present, or future.

762

: 00:44:00

You have your own opinion, and

you're entitled to form it.

763

: 00:44:05

I don't know about you, but out of all

the episodes that I have ever done on

764

: 00:44:10

this show, and you will yet do, this

one rubs me a little bit differently.

765

: 00:44:16

Not only is it somebody that actually

took a stand for themselves and realized

766

: 00:44:20

that this isn't something that they

wanted to live in for the rest of their

767

: 00:44:23

lives, they decided to consciously change.

768

: 00:44:27

They decided to listen to the other

truth that was out there, so I really

769

: 00:44:32

have to ask you: are you willing to

listen to the truth that is out there?

770

: 00:44:37

Are you really willing to take that

risk that maybe hearing it from

771

: 00:44:42

more than one person can help you

set goal that you have into motion?

772

: 00:44:49

To help you create that opportunity

that normally doesn't exist?

773

: 00:44:55

Maybe even form an identity that maybe

you can have if you're just willing

774

: 00:44:59

to invest in yourself just a little

bit more because you are worth it.

775

: 00:45:05

I've said it time and time again I'm

saying it yet again on another episode

776

: 00:45:08

that you're worth it, and I think that

Katherine has been worth it because of

777

: 00:45:13

her ability to share this story with us.

778

: 00:45:17

Don't waste this opportunity Don't be

stuck in a cult, whether it's your own

779

: 00:45:22

cult that you created about your own

self image, or it's about something

780

: 00:45:27

else that you've been thinking.

781

: 00:45:29

You don't have to be skeptical anymore.

782

: 00:45:32

You just have to embrace the freedom that

if you take the risk in order to listen

783

: 00:45:37

to the truth that has been around you

all this time, whether it's for personal

784

: 00:45:41

and professional reasons, or even for

your own business, for that matter,

785

: 00:45:46

it will set you free, and you'll be a

much better person on the other side.

786

: 00:45:52

That is no way, shape, or form a guarantee

that you'll be successful, but I think

787

: 00:45:58

you'll be much more enriched by the fact

that you have listened to not only those

788

: 00:46:02

voices, but you're not being swayed by

those negative ones at the same time.

789

: 00:46:10

Thanks for listening to episode

number 86 of Speaking From the

790

: 00:46:13

Heart, and I look forward to

hearing from your heart very soon.

791

: 00:46:18

Outro: Thanks for listening.

792

: 00:46:19

For more information about our podcast

and future shows, search for Speaking From

793

: 00:46:24

The Heart to subscribe and be notified

wherever you listen to your podcasts.

794

: 00:46:29

Visit us at www.

795

: 00:46:31

yourspeakingvoice.

796

: 00:46:33

biz for more information about

potential services that can help you

797

: 00:46:36

create the best version of yourself.

798

: 00:46:39

See you next time.